bellhousings finished for R-154 7/20/2007

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:19 am

GREAT WORK ROBIN! er, I mean........ Smog

But I dont understand about the Starion drive shaft, wouldnt you want the largest u-joint you could get?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:54 pm

well, I dont completely follow, but my point was to make the driveshaft diameter as big as reasonable all the way back to the differential.

If you could get a u-joint into this yoke that could fit large diameter domestic driveshaft it would be to your advantage.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:24 pm

How about making an adapter flange from the Starion torque tube to a cheap/strong/readily available yolk and u-joint Bill? I can't imagine needing a tube larger than the stock 3" diameter.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:05 am

yeah, if you wanna make a couple, its no problem.

I need a bolt circle pattern and a u- joint size

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:12 am

smog wrote:spicer 1350 will take 1200hp... the r154 probably wont for very long

Since the stock toyota joints are only setup for a small diameter driveshaft, this makes it quite a bit easier to adapt. as you can find many weldable yokes in different tibing sizes.

Then you can either make a sandwich plate for the rear and adapter another 1350 or just cut the stock drivesahaft and weld on a spicer weld yoke to the front and call it good.

NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I understand what you were saying , Smog, yes it an excellent idea. and I also understand what DJ is saying about a sandwich plate, but we might as well make a driveshaft, because your going to have to make one anyway.

I quit my day job as a greeter down at the free clinic

I gotta finish this new one peice bellhousing on the R-154 and get a video out to jeff and Corey then I gotta work on the shifter extention for eric, then I can have some time to work with you and DJ and build the correct driveshaft.
I will pick up a front yoke and u-joint next week and find a suitable driveshaft donor for the sandwich plate.
But I still need demensions on the torque tube flange

whereeeeeeeeeees the luvv man!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:10 pm

probably find it in the 4WD jeep stuff that uses the R 154

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:59 am

I found the driveshaft parts for the 1350 u-joint, I can make the drive shaft up pretty easy

http://www.swracecars.com/shopping/shop ... +Tube+Type

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:01 pm

This is the all wheel drive bellhousing plate jeff ball lent me to get measurements for the second gen 5th bellhousing bolt

The starter on the all wheel drive was mounted about 10 degrees higher then the FWD unit, probably to clear an axle or something

So I am building a new bellhousing plate that works with the second gen bellhousing, the EVO 3 and the first gen 4G63 plus it covers the lower portion of the bellhousing and includes the lower mounting brackets

the next thing I did was to cut out the whole end plate of the last bellhousing I had built, I didnt like how much the bellhousing/adaptor unit weighed and I wanted a one piece unit, I hate adaptors

with the back plate removed it was much easier to get a uniform wall thickness, I thinned it down a lot from what it was, I hope to save about 3 lbs, you can also see how the extra ears were added to accomidate the EVO3 and the second gen bellhousings

the next thing I did was to put the adaptor plate I had built up to the now thinned bellhousing and marked it for angled gussets

I slotted the bellhousing and placed the gussets in place

then I welded the gussets in place and aligned the rear plate up to the bellhousing and tack welded that

Its hard to see in this pic but I used 1/4 aluminum rod to form the ridges on the outside of the bell to give it a difined look , instead of the larger outlines I used before

Now I will style and mold it all out with bondo and get my final shape, then off to the casting place

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:14 pm

Bill your the man! I can't say thanks enough for the effort you've been putting into these. You've helped me immensely. You ever need anything you let me know.

BTW By cutting the end plate off did that in turn shorten the bellhousing or did you make up for that loss?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:29 pm

the bellhousing will maintain its length ( depth) exactly as the bellhousing you have now, its just going to be so much lighter and yet stronger because those gussets are angled to absorb the torque of the engine.
the unit you have had gussest straight up and down

I had wanted to wait and see how Leon made out with the hydraulic clutch, it would have been a clean install, but I noticed that most manucaturers that had tried it, went back to the clutch fork later, I think it was because of the hassle to adjust the internal unit, I know they offer measuring tools that require removal of the trans before you can adjust it

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:39 pm

you know Smog? you really dont need a slip yoke in the front with the torque tube arraingement, the location between the rear diff and the trans housing doesnt change like a open driveshaft would

There is a flange available in the 4wd stuff that fits the jeep equivilant of the R 154, its called a slip yoke eliminater, if the output shaft is the same, it might be a good idea to look into that and use a boltable flange set up in there

The prices I been seeing for the 1350 slip yoke have been in the $300.00 dollar range, by the time you got the drive shaft done, you would be in the $600.00 dollar range

It may even be worth looking at a stock yoke with the ears machined off and a ' face plate' welded on to accept a weld on flange

this site says if the yoke dont exist they will make one
http://www.driveshaftsuperstore.com/Dri ... _no_cv.htm

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:54 pm

Bill,

Doesn't the slip yoke eliminator bolt to the back of the transfer case on 4wds and not the trans??

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:25 am

yeah, your right Bob, but its an option on how to build a system that would except the 1350 universal without the expense of the slip yoke system

I would have to find the right material and have the spline machined in before I could cut the outer diameter of the shaft housing and mount a flange

pttcolt · Post by **pttcolt** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:43 pm

91turboGSX wrote:Bill your the man! I can't say thanks enough for the effort you've been putting into these. You've helped me immensely. You ever need anything you let me know.

I agree completely I am really amazed.I dont know if you realize how groundbreaking your efforts are.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:02 am

Its gotta be here Smog, but I can't find your part number, if I had a good number I think I could get one

http://www.rockforddriveline.com/doyouhave.htm

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:49 am

There have been some questions about the pilot bearing placing. The problem with both the R-154 and the w 55 series trans was the length of the throwout bearing collar, I had to place the transmission as close to the engine as I could so the throw out bearing had enough movement. Putting the pilot bearing in the crank gained an inch of travel and it was an easier option then grinding down the original input shaft

There is a spacer I made to fit into the 6 bolt crankshaft its 42 mm outside daimeter. the bushing cradles the pilot bearing in place

when placing the bushing in the crank, make sure it does not protrude from the center hole. I want to make sure the flywheel is torqued up to the crank and not on the edge of the collar

remember the flywheel must be machined out to at least 30mm to allow the input shaft to clear it

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:14 pm

This is just an update on the R 154 bell housing, its coming along very well, I just keep working, working and working on it, I had hoped to have it in the casting shop by now but it looks like it will be Monday

Notice I placed a heat vent at the top and I staggered the gussets in the direction of rotation of the engine, it offers more strength at less wieght

I built in the right side mount for the extra two bellhousing bolt holes, it sets in the exact place the 2nd gen 4G63 bolt holes sets so if you have a second gen motor it will fit nicely

I filled in the steel skeliton to get ready for the casting shop

you can see the outlines of the aluminium lines I used to guage the wall depth and to build in the extra strength into the bolt bosses, I think it defined the looks a little better and it allowed a thinner wall to lighten it up

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:18 pm

outstanding

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:20 pm

Something I never really thought about before. Bill, are you building these for narrow block motors only, or is it adaptable to wideblock motors also??

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:33 am

I figured the wide block was available with the Mazda bellhousing and the truck trans, so I never thought it was needed.
The wide block always meant that you had to spend a $1000.00 bucks in pistons , rings and gaskets before you could use it and still you didnt have the squirters, then you had to buy the bellhousing, clutch and trans on top of that.

And I know you guys dont like to hear it but..............the extra stroke you put into a wide block is a step in the wrong direction, the faster piston speed creates more heat then the system can handle, you can make more power from the 2.0l

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:36 am

I agree with bill on all but the 100mm stroke part. The wideblocks do assume you'll be building the engine. There are plenty of wideblock options out there. His narrowblock bellhousings are for people that want to put a motor straight from the donor car without opening it up. Definitely a higher number of people wanting to do this than build an engine.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:56 pm

the primer is still wet in this pic, I feel like I have sanded out a rough neck water buffalo

I extended my accent lines all the way back so I can pick up the strength of the back plate and learn how to sand and sand and sand, each bellhousing bolt has its own gusset/accent line from the bellhousing to the trans plate

I am really happy with the hot air vent i put in, it may save some clutch failure on a hot track day

You cant tell by the pic, but each one of the gussets are tapered at 4 degrees on both sides so I could get a good draft at the cast shop.

Tomorow I will be re measuring everything and then it goes off to the casting shop

with the engine adaptors, this bellhousing can use up to 8 bellhousing/engine bolts, it can fit the 4G63 first gen, the 4G63 second gen and the EVO1 through 3 without any modifications . I picked up a EVO3 engine just to make sure of the bolt pattern, I sould have it tomorow but I am certian its right.

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:52 pm

im all about the narrow block since you started to make the bellhouseing.

is there a 6sp that can be used?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:13 pm

I talked to a couple guys about the 6 speed that comes in the ' F' body chevys and some other 5 speed trans.
What I have done is , make a generic bellhousing that fits the narrow engine and I can make any backing plate for that bellhousing to accept any trans , but the input shaft has to be at least 7 inches. It would be like the original r 154 adaptors I made.
I been waiting to see how Leon ( GRDSM) works out his internal hydraulic throw out bearing and I think that is what I would use in a ' one of a kind' set up

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:13 pm

sorry for the double post

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:37 am

AWSOME WORK MMR BILL. SOON AS I LITE UP MY D50 TRANS YOU WILL BE HEARING FROM ME

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:16 am

I owe ya big guy >;o) you were too kind on the flywheel deal >;o)

I have 4 of these promised, how many more should I have made?

Should I have kits available that have complete clutches, if so what clutch?

flywheels? which ones?

Shifter extensions are very do-able

Inspection covers will be included with bellhousings

1350 universals? should I have some made?

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:21 pm

I'm ready to trade mine back to you Bill. Those look very nice! I'm probably going to try a South Bend Clutch setup. Their prices are very reasonable and they make them for pretty much any import. I'm tired of hearing all the bad things about ACT and Center Force. I don't know what kind of support South Bend has, but I'm very willing to try them. As far as a flywheel, I'm sticking with the stock unit. Pretty much any aftermarket flywheel needs to be balanced with the clutch set just to work right. I've seen guys walk a 6-bolt crank because of an aluminum flywheel. Besides, my car is mostly a street car and the extra mass will help on the streets. Including the U-joint would be great. I haven't looked into driveshafts too much yet, so I don't know if they will include the correct unit or if I need to supply my own. Can't wait to get all of this together. I just pulled my car out of the garage so I can finish painting my walls and get some real work done on the car. Just waiting for my vacation time in May to get the bulk of it done.

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:47 pm

Bill that thing looks amazing. If i'm not one of the reserved people then you can add my name on that list. I'll send the one I have back if you'd like. Let me know.

The things your doing for the 4g63 community is astonishing. Glad we have someone like you around.

Thanks Bill! Show that man some love guys.....

SPOOLD U · Post by **SPOOLD U** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:44 pm

So how does one go about purchasing one of these?

And what kind of clutch options are there for this setup? Do we have ot mix and match pressure plate/flywheel combos and discs?

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:15 pm

bill i think you should make every part of this kit avaible, second make it easy for people to find the extra parts they will need.

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:06 pm

carguyf545 wrote:bill i think you should make every part of this kit avaible, second make it easy for people to find the extra parts they will need.

not for nothing but bill has done the hardest part. he really only has to tell you what will work with it and be done. you can get the parts very easy if you just look for them.its the same as using the d50 tranny.it takes some foot work to find everything but its all out there

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:48 am

its just an idea, that will make him more money by stocking parts.

is makeing more money a bad idea???

SPOOLD U · Post by **SPOOLD U** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:19 pm

screemin eagle wrote:
carguyf545 wrote:bill i think you should make every part of this kit avaible, second make it easy for people to find the extra parts they will need.
not for nothing but bill has done the hardest part. he really only has to tell you what will work with it and be done. you can get the parts very easy if you just look for them.its the same as using the d50 tranny.it takes some foot work to find everything but its all out there

how is it the same as using a D50 tranny? will the spline pattern of the shaft of the supra trans fit a DSM clutch? I'd love to be able to run a quartermaster twin disc with that setup

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:38 pm

the spline on the R 154 is exactly the same as the w-55 through 59 . I am not familiar with the D-50 trans, but a few other guys are intrested in it too, so let me know what you are looking for.
I would LOVE to work with anyone on aftermarket clutches, my next step up will be an internal throw out bearing to accept the aftermarket stuff, but from what I can read nobody is happy with the double disc stuff, unless its pure race

SPOOLD U · Post by **SPOOLD U** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:06 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:the spline on the R 154 is exactly the same as the w-55 through 59 . I am not familiar with the D-50 trans, but a few other guys are intrested in it too, so let me know what you are looking for.
I would LOVE to work with anyone on aftermarket clutches, my next step up will be an internal throw out bearing to accept the aftermarket stuff, but from what I can read nobody is happy with the double disc stuff, unless its pure race

I love the twin disc on my talon.

My plan is to run a the R154 trans with the 4.22 rear gear on a narrowblock 4G63 with a GT42R, on a 26" tire, in a starquest, basicly a supra hunter. I guess you could call it a race car.. haha.. The only part I'm trying to figure out is what kind of clutch to run. I don't know what combination of parts to use to make a clutch work between that trans and the 4G63?

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:24 pm

SPOOLD U wrote:
Bill Hincher wrote:the spline on the R 154 is exactly the same as the w-55 through 59 . I am not familiar with the D-50 trans, but a few other guys are intrested in it too, so let me know what you are looking for.
I would LOVE to work with anyone on aftermarket clutches, my next step up will be an internal throw out bearing to accept the aftermarket stuff, but from what I can read nobody is happy with the double disc stuff, unless its pure race
I love the twin disc on my talon.

My plan is to run a the R154 trans with the 4.22 rear gear on a narrowblock 4G63 with a GT42R, on a 26" tire, in a starquest, basicly a supra hunter. I guess you could call it a race car.. haha.. The only part I'm trying to figure out is what kind of clutch to run. I don't know what combination of parts to use to make a clutch work between that trans and the 4G63?

probably a clutch disk and a pressure plate like every other clutch setup?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:29 pm

yeah, it would be a total Mitsubishi 4G63 set up, the only thing you would have to do is have a clutch builder change the center spline to the r 154, everything else is layed out rigth out of a 4G63,

IF YOU HAVE A COMPLETE BOX STOCK CLUTCH SET UP FOR A NARROW BLOCK 4g63 FWD, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS CHANGE THE CENTER SPLINE IN THE DISC AND THATS ALL YOU NEED. I just used a toyota disc cause it was cheap.

IF YOUR AFTERMARKET CLUTCH IS MADE TO FIT IN A STOCK 4G63 FWD, IT WILL FIT IN ANY OF MY BELLHOUSINGS, just change the center spline in the disc

end of story!

flatblackdime · Post by **flatblackdime** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:18 pm

So any clues on when these will become available? I'd love to be able to purchase one of your bellhousings as soon as they're ready

On a side note, could someone give me a measurement of the approx shifter location on the R-154 relative to the face of the bellhousing?

-Justin

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:19 pm

I went down and asked about them this morning and they are not done yet.
They said MAYBE the end of this week

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 02, 2007 9:53 am

the length of the bell housing will be dictated by the length of the input shaft, is it ought to be the same but I will measure today and have it on line this afternoon.
I have to run down to the casting shop today and try to push a little bit, I am tired of waiting for the casting.
One of the owners of the casting shop is dealing with pancreatic cancer and he aint doin so good, its spread to his liver, so its hard to bitch about getting done with my castings

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 02, 2007 11:12 pm

I have been promised 10 bellhousings by Friday

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:13 pm

5/11/2007 I visited with the casting shop today and they have two bellhousings ready, I have been promised all ten by next wensday

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:37 pm

Don't you just love false promises?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:52 pm

THIS! is exactly whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, I buy the tool instead of the product
if I need something round, I buy a lathe, if I need something drilled, I buy a mill, if I need a hole dug, I built a backhoe, if I want something hauled I built a dump truck.
the work I need done is temporary, the tools are permanent and anyway, when I order something from California that is the latest and greatest since sliced bread, I gotta make it fit anyway, so I might as well do it myself
Im lookin for a foundry

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:06 pm

Cochrane Foundry in York PA might be for sale if you want it. PM me if you want Dex's phone number.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:52 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO man, I was only bitching out loud.

I aint gonna buy a foundry

thanks for covering for me though,.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:32 pm

Dex is a cool guy BTW. Has a SoloII PA Hillclimb Starion. Sometimes he gets a little sidetracked with his mods and spends more time on weird rule loopholes than on basic car dynamics, but he's FUN to talk to.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:13 am

smog wrote:aww bill a foundry, you shold get it lol.

on a side note, while sitting here buzzed and bored.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH to be in my mid twenty's again.............what a great time

I would rather be young and broke then old and rich

I will be checking on the r 154's again today

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:31 pm

he shoots! he SCORSE!

I got the first four housing 5 minutes ago

film at 11:00 !