bellhousings finished for R-154 7/20/2007

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:58 am

Well..as promised.research and development is taking place as we speak.

here's $ 50.00 bucks worth of aluminum taking a hit for the team

thats right.....there is a perfectly good R 154 front plate cut off of the front cover of a perfectly good trans.......who says I dont love you guys?

rough cut to develop adaptor

here is the other side of the adaptor plate....yesss that is a perfectly good front cover from a W-55 that was cut off a perfectly good trans...

If this dont work, your looking at about $750.00 bucks worth of scrap.....
Wheres the love MAN!

Anbody need some transmission parts?
Bill

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:18 am

Tear it up! Why the focus on the Toyota stuff? Why not a 300ZX transmission and stuff like that? Are Toyota boxes easier to find?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:16 pm

Versitility.......the toy works with 4 wl drives and small W-55's...now I can put it up to a R154....thats what everyone asked about........no reason not to use datsun stuff..........its just nobody asked about it

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:58 pm

I feel the love. Looks more involved than I thought. Hope it works out and we have something soon.

And why not the 300ZX? I thought most, if not all, Nissan trannies had integrated bellhousings. And the Toyota stuff is alot easier to find. I've never seen a Z32 in the yard. I've seen some Z31's, but never bothered to check out the tranny or specs on power for it. I know the 240SX and such have integral bellhousings and aren't that great.

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:53 am

why not adapt a t5 to it from a fox body mustang they are every where and can be bought from $50 to $ 350 and when you out grow the worl of possabilities of that trany and all the upgrades for it you can go tremec and it bolts up the same with no modifacations

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:42 am

trying to get away from American stuff.........I watched some guy trying to stuff a 429 Ford into a 1969 datsun roadster........and wondered what for?
Small block Chevy's are like assholes.......everybody has one......
I wanna update the hod rod industry to include the performance you can find in the asian cars....and make it affordable..to everybody
the 4G63 Turbo can deliver plenty of power and the Turbo Supra trans can put it down to the pavement....and still steer because of the weight savings.

Lets keep it japanese
Hincher

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:34 pm

The T5 is a terrible choice. They're only good for 300hp. My brother broke his on a hard shift in a stock Z28. The T56 is great, but costs way too much for most of us. We'd have more options on trannies if those damn engineers wouldn't build the trannies with interal bellhousings. Bill, let us know when you have something working on the R154 setup and what it's gonna cost to get one.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:06 pm

One thing I noticed about American stuff is that American junkyards know what they're worth. American junkyards dont know crap about what a strong Japanese transmission is and sometimes sell them cheap becuase they dont know how good they are.

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:08 am

DJpowerHaus wrote:One thing I noticed about American stuff is that American junkyards know what they're worth. American junkyards dont know crap about what a strong Japanese transmission is and sometimes sell them cheap becuase they dont know how good they are.

i would just like to let you know in and around new york nothing is cheap when it comes to imports. maybe in the south and mid west and every where else. i would find mighty max trannies every where else for $100 by me no less than $350.

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:16 am

jeffball610 wrote:The T5 is a terrible choice. They're only good for 300hp. My brother broke his on a hard shift in a stock Z28. The T56 is great, but costs way too much for most of us. We'd have more options on trannies if those damn engineers wouldn't build the trannies with interal bellhousings. Bill, let us know when you have something working on the R154 setup and what it's gonna cost to get one.

it definetly is not. im not talking about the unit gm used for the camaro im talking about the one used in a FOX BODY MUSTANG they have tons of upgraded parts for them and they are a dime a dozen its not hp that breaks them its the tq and the 4g63/4 doesnt generate tq the same as a small block ford or a chevy. If you were to out grow the stregnth of that tranny you could pick up your summit racing magazine and order a tremec TKO or 3550 and bolt it directly in and you wouldnt have a problem ever again.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:04 pm

FYI.. There are already adapters available for a B2600 bellhousing to mustang pattern that you could use with the TKO or 3550

4g63mightymax · Post by **4g63mightymax** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:34 pm

Bill,
Seeing your pictures makes me want to sell my toys and go buy a bridgeport machine right this second. I am glad to see that you are using it for something worthwhile and it isn't sitting in the corner of an old machine shop collecting dust!
Great work, keep it coming!
-Jeremy

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:51 pm

Thanks Jeremy

I need a bigger one........I am a tool junky......my wife says I am the only guy in the world that built his own backhoe to dig the hole to put in his own swimming pool >;o)))))))))....I outta take some pics of my tools and show you guys what I do...........you would believe it anyway >;o)

Bill

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:09 pm

Haha.. My dad found a bulldozer in the woods from the 60s and rebuilt it so that he could build our house. Hahaha. You're not alone in this world my friend.

evojb · Post by **evojb** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:12 am

Hi guys new to your forum, This place looks like what i've been loking for, finally people who believe in the twin cam, bill suggested i check it out through email.
I am currently putting an evo3 4g63 into my aussie starion, fits nice but a stronger box would be nice.

Does the R154 fit into the starion tunnel

Greg55_99 · Post by **Greg55_99** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:30 pm

I suspect that your W55 and R154 bellhousing may go over fairly well with the 4WD crowd. Good Job! It's hard to get vendors to invest in new products for a limited market.

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/tech-artic ... sings.html

Greg

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:22 am

hey Greg,

Nice post, could you help me out a little with the information on the large body late model Jeep iron cast front bearing retainer..........you have a pic of all three on your site..........you say its a different diameter but it looks pretty close...........one of the problems of mounting the R154 to the Mits 4G63 narrow block is...........that its so far away from the engine........either an extension has to be built into the adaptor or the input shaft has to be shortend.......I dont really like either option......but the long casting would solve the problem if the cost can be held down

Thanx
Bill

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:17 am

The work on the adaptor continues.........I have the basic plan...

I dont mind doing it this way but in the back of my head , it may be cheaper to build a whole new housing.....

These are just ideas........built instead of drawn

You can see how much wider and taller this trans is........the front bolt pattern is too wide to fit in my original housing

It has an 1 1/4 " longer input shaft, so the throw out bearing is a major consideration, the W-55 was just long enough

I gotta get a scanner so I can submit the drawings off the drafting board ( I HATE CAD) so I can get input from all you guys on how you would like to see it done

We got options, should I shorten the input shaft? should I build a new carrier for the throw out bearing? should I build in a hydraulic throw out bearing? cast a new bell housing? a cable set up for the clutch?
how do I hold the cost down? once I build one of these adaptors its gonna cost $150. maybe $250. after you buy the bellhousing....it would be cheaper to sell a stand alone bellhousing ( except for the time I will spend on building the pattern)..but even then I may have to supply a different throw out bearing collar............money and time is the only issue......

Greg55_99 · Post by **Greg55_99** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:48 am

Bill, there's an Australian company, that, I THINK, may be already doing what you're doing... I think...

http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eozrunner ... rR150.html

http://www.marks4wd.com/

You may be re-inventing the wheel.

Greg

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:11 pm

sure is.........what does it cost?

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:31 pm

The company that makes the adaptors is Adavanced Adaptors I think. I see lots of Toyota transmissions to Chevy engine bellhousings. Honestly Bill, It might be cheaper and easier to build a new bellhousing. I'm not sure how low volume you can go and still make some margin of profit, but a small run of 15 bellhousings would be a great start. You've done most of the hard work already.

Another option would be to chop the R154's shaft. I don't like that option cause it alters something that you can't undo. How have the W series bellhousings been doing on sales? That might give you some idea as to how well these will sell. Put me down for one unless you abandon the project. Then I'll just adapt the Mitsu housing I have to the Toyota tranny the way you did your first project. Hope I can get my hands on something pretty soon. I'm itching to get started on my car, but I don't want an inferior product or some hack job.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:07 pm

Nope..it aint the same.........that is mounted to a Toyota bell housing........the depth of the housing wont match what the Mits flywheel depth.it aint the same........i

The trouble with using the W-55 bell with an adaptor is....the R154 is made to take lots of power........the bolt pattern is wider than the W-55.......in engineering.........wider is better.....like an airplane wing......the shorter the wing .....the more stress is imposed on the wing per sq in....thats why gliders have such a long wing span, they can be made so much lighter if they are longer.........I digress........the wider bolt pattern can absorb more horsepower with less stress.......

BUT! did you see the front throw out brg retainer on the jeep 3500 series? that answers the whole deal......its an inch longer that the Toy.......it would make it much easier to make a bell housing that is not too complex....much cheaper to build..........

Greg55_99 · Post by **Greg55_99** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:29 am

Hey Bill,
Just to do a little brainstorming here. Take a
look at this adapter available from OTT Industries
here in the USA:

http://www.ottindustries.com/22re-sm.htm

What it does, is, adapt a GM SM420 or SM465
transmission to the W series Toyota bellhousing. Now
it happens that the SM420/465 have the same bolt
pattern as ALL GM Saginaw/Muncie transmissions. That
would mean that anyone that buys your bellhousing can
use this adapter to upgun to, say, a Borg Warner T5,
an M22 Muncie, a Doug Nash 5-speed or even a GM
pattern Tremec TKO.

Just thinking out loud...

Greg

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:40 pm

well fellow gearheads,

I been hard at it even if it don't look like it, there must have been a full moon or something lately, DJ had a tough month last month and so did I, I bought a new brigeport to build stuff on and when I brought it home to the shop it got dropped off my fork lift, ok......soooooooooo the bridgeport was 2500.00 and the repairs were 1750.00 you do the math. But we are up and running again.

I know you guys have seen this before, its my 'engine plate' this jig allows me to find and work from center.

because a pattern must be built 1% bigger then what your final size must be, I had to make a sheet metal spacer to fit over the engine plate

now I can locate the center of the engine plate to the center of the engine side of the bellhousing

I made this dowel to locate the center of where the rear plate of the bellhousing will locate the transmission

this is the original placing for the W 55 trans, but I am going to cut off this rear plate to fit thr R 154 facing in at the floor of the original bellhousing

it was a good clean cut, now I am lower into the original bellhousing plate so it wont look like a water buffalo wrapped in a blanket when I get done

this is the face plate to accept either the W-55 or the R154, the R 154 will have to use a spacer plate to move it back about 1 1/2 " but it will just be a ' floater' with longer bolts or studs
the bellhousing should be drilled for one or the other transmissions, but will be far stronger with a clean apperance so you can put some HP to the ground
Thanks for your patience

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:51 pm

How much are the adaptors going to be? Should I budget myself, or should I put it on my Christmas whish list? I'm getting really itchy waiting to put this thing in my car. I'm going to make one myself if I have to! (probably not a good idea at this point)

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:34 pm

The last time I felt 'itchy' I had to go to the free clinic and have a ' culture test' done, but that was a long time ago. then I had to get ahold of everyone I had ' known' in the biblical sense........that wasnt a good time
thats a whole other story

I have got all my other work done for now and I spend about 4 hours a night in the new shop, I will date the work as i go and take lots of pics so you will know EXACTLY how far along i am with it

Later

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:55 pm

As soon as you get these done let me know and money will be sent your way. Looks great!

Thanks for all the time you put into this or else I'd be stuck with just another stock Mighty Max tranny or something.

turbosigma · Post by **turbosigma** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:40 pm

keep up the good work bill - will be after one for both box types

the R-154 for the 4g63 and the w-5x for the 4g54

found this via ebay - and re-found Project OG, good to see it's back up too

will get both at the same time if possible - to save on post to australia

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:09 pm

Help pay for my air fare and I'll hand deliver it.. I need a vacation! Haha (I'm serious)

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:38 am

Why not DJ?, we need an 'International' drift meet, where everybody could ' camp and cruise'

Metal shapers do it in Oblong Illinios, I have gone and met in person all the folks I met on the web and it was GREAT!

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=107

Its just a big car show for a week

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:15 pm

The Starion / Conquest Club has annual meets. I went to one in Pigeon Forge, TN a few years ago and it was great fun. Been trying to get to another, but I've been working on this racecar for so long I havent been able to make one in 2 years. Next year it is going to be in Michigan. I am going to aim on driving the racecar all the way there next August.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:51 pm

If you come to Michigan let me know we will set you up with a place to stay, my shops are in Toledo, my home is in Michigan

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:57 pm

Any updates on the adaprtor? As soon as I hang some more sheetrock and paint, my garage will be ready to accept my car. That means I'll be ready to put my tranny and engine together. That means, I NEED A BELLHOUSING!

Let us know at your convinience Bill.

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:23 pm

<--------also readily waiting. Updates?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:28 am

I been working at one of my other shops full time, sorry for the delays as I have said, I was not happy with an ' adaptor' that was mickey mouse, I had to develop a good plan because I dont know how much power you guys are gonna generate. if you remember I had cut off the old rear section from the original bell housing. that was to braoden the surface on the transmission side

this is how it all starts

the inner structure had to be relocated to accept both bolt patterns

this whole structure is a steel skelliton covered with bondo and carved out by hand

with the rear section larger than before, I have to pay attention the the gradual angle of the casting to make sure the casting has a positive ' draft' when casted

this is after the first sanding and fitting, its important to maintain the centering of the input shaft

the fitting looks good , I have to add some materail and remove some as I said , this is hand carved

this is the right length for the W 55, a 1 1/2 inch spacer still has to be placed behind this bell housing to accept the r 154 but the diameter of the bell housing will be wide enough to support the extra power, instead of hanging an large adaptor on the back of a small space

this is the size i needed for the larger bolt pattern as well as the smaller bolt pattern that is much stronger and safer to allow the bigger trans, the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. I choke on bondo dust for about a week after every sanding , my dog is covered with dust

Bill

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:03 pm

Looks great! I just want to thank you for all the time, money, and effort you put into this. I know you'll make me happy once I recieve my bellhousing!

Thanks again.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:14 pm

the uploader has changed and I cant post my pic's right but the bell housing pattern is done

I should have these back by next week after casting

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:25 pm

found the pics

[/img]
this pattern is built to accept the w-55-58 and the r 154, it will be in casting tomorrow and I should have them in maching next week

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:52 pm

Have you come up with a price yet? I know it may be a little early to ask, but thought I'd throw it out there. Also, do we have to run a FWD flywheel? I have an AWD unit that should be little smaller (if I remember right) and an AWD starter. So do I need to make changes to my plan when using your unit?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:49 pm

Everything I did was built around the FWD engine, the larger flywheel was better for overcoming inertia in a low toque engine.
I dropped off the pattern this morning and ordered 5 test castings done, they will be hand layups @ $175 per unit. If any adjustments need to be made to help speed up machine work, it will be done before the final ' master cast' is built. afer the master cast is built, this can be mass produced ( 100 units at a run) at a reduced price.
Usual machine time on the old unit and old equipment 8 hours. I hope to cut that in half and pass the savings on to you
as it stands $ 350 is what I feel its worth, which is half of what it costs to purchase pistons to convert a wide block 4g64
I still have to build the second part of the housing with a spacer to shim the r 154 back an inch and a 1/4 or so, but if you want to save a buck , you can build that for yourself

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:56 pm

Awesome.. Cant wait!!!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:17 pm

for what ? DJ , your a wide block guy, do you figure on switching back ?

MR.SIX · Post by **MR.SIX** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:52 am

I will buy one! This is what i have been waiting for. A trans that wont break and will work longer than a month or 2.

emanaresi · Post by **emanaresi** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:20 pm

Hey guys,

Thsi is my first post, but I have been lurking for a little while. I am really excited about the work that is going on here and though I know it is almost complete in this stage, I would be glad to help in any way possible in the future. I have my eyo on an 89 conquest that I would like to do a 4g63 swap in and it looks like now is about the best time ever as good transmissions are finally becoming a viable option. Thanks a ton, I will definately be buying one in a few months.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:34 pm

I'm still hoping to do a quick, cheap, reliable swap one of these.. So far this has eluded me.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:33 am

Bill,

Even though I do not have immidiate plans to use your product, I still think that it is a great thing for our community! I am certainly going to promote it and if (when?) my hybrid tranny fails, I will surely switch over!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:13 am

Thanks guys,

I have a lot of work done on the adaptor for the r 154, I will be posting pic's Monday. I have continued to build some new tooling while I wait for the foundry to finish my original order from two weeks ago, so that should be here quickly.
As soon as I get them , I will check for adjustments ( if any) and have them ready as soon as posible. Winter is slow time up here so I get more time to work on my projects.

hey Smog, is your weather any better?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:37 pm

well, I recieved the new housings back from the foundry,Just thought you might want to see ' the swamp', hope you don't mind

this adaptor for the r 154 is coming along

I thought I would show you my shop, I work here alone and spend my time with idea's and building one of a kind of stuff

these are the new housings that need to be machined now

This is a pic of the casting shop that does all my work, they are a great bunch of hot rod guys >;o)

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:05 pm

No Kane, thats a 57 Ford fairlane with a 392 hemi , I have 3 of them ( my addiction) I have another building just for storage of my other cars

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:04 pm

This bellhousing has jeff balls name on it, I guess the first thing to do before I start is to degree in the head of the bridgeport and make sure its square

Then I bolted the bellhousing on the rotary table and made the first cut to get a sraight surface started, I will make one pass just to get the surface started

now that I have a flat surface I can mount my jig on top of the rotary table and do the back side of the bell

once I have the back side surfaced now I can mount the back part of my jig and check it for required hieght, see the two dowel pins on each side of the jig? those are for hieght

Now that i know the back is square to the front surface, I can remount my bellhousing on the rotary tabe from the back side and take off the front side to the required hieght I had measured before and at the same time make double sure that the front of the bell is exactly square to the rear

After cutting the front face its time to remount the jig and drill the bellhousing / engine side holes, first I will recheck to make sure the bellhousing is square to the bridgeport and then I will use a dial indicator to locate each hole EXACTLY where it should be

After drilling all the mounting holes from the front side , the bellhousing is flipped over and each mounting bolt is surfaced to make sure the full length of the mounting bolt is used and proper clamping force is applied

and this is a nice finish cut to mount the head of the bolts in

Now I gotta get some shelving tomorow and see the dentist so I gotta go sleep, don't worry jeff, its in a safe place, don't forget I gotta get the adaptor plate done next .