bellhousings finished for R-154 7/20/2007

emanaresi · Post by **emanaresi** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:24 am

Just doing some planning for my project and was wondering what components will be needed.

Oviously an r154 tranny and a 4g63. I believe it has been said that a fwd flywheel and starter would be necessary. What about the clutch, pilot bearing and throwout bearing?

I am sorry if this information has allready been posted, and thanks for the help.

BTW, amazing work on the bellhousing. Bill, do you build hot rods and custom parts for a living? Either way, I am very jealous of your toys and your shop

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:50 pm

No worries. Just let me know when it's done and what the damage is on it and shipping. I still have to clean my garage so I can pull my car in to do all this work. i can't wait.

(i must be sick)

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:03 pm

Hey i've been waiting for a while too....Which bellhousing has my name on it?

Looks great Bill can't wait to see it together with the spacer.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:24 am

Have no fear Turbo man! the reason I had 5 casting done was just for you and Jeff, as always the guys in this group have priority, because you can help me test out the product
All the clutch parts are exactly like Eric's system at
http://www.projectzerog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=394

you will see just what you need.

The first bell housing will be done right hereon the web site as its built, so you will know , every day, right where I am on it.
the adaptor is a straight forward kinda deal, all the foundation work is laid out with the bellhousing, any guy with a mill could make the spacer, however, the front throw out bearing collar would be too short, there is a housing used on the jeep, I think it was the 3500 series of the r 154 with a real long input shaft that might work, but I dont have a price on it
the correct bearing collar will be available on my adaptor plates and I hope its cheap enough to aviod having to buy the jeep set up

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:51 pm

well, after I got the sides square and the hieght right, I had drilled the front side first and now I gotta drill the back/ trans side

The first thing I did was to index and drill the three guide pins

After the guide pins were drilled the bolt holes can be put in

here is the first test fit, checking index of the engine/bellhousing guides

now its tear down the jig, remount to the rotary table upside down and dress the clamping hole while adjusting the hole depth

now its time to drill out the clutch fork hole, i made this guide so I could accuratly get the hole lined up each time in the same exact place

The next step was to assemble the front cover of the R 154 and bolt it up to the new housing, I have to check the hieght of the clutch fork pivot ball and the proper location for function

Now I can assemble the flywheel clutch assembly and test the clearances between the flywheel and the belhousing

I fitted the guide pins in the bellhousing and placed the adaptor for the R 154 on all three guides, I used a dummy input shaft I made to center the input shaft to the clutch disc and the front bearing hole in the transmission case after it passes all the way through the bellhousing and the adaptor

Now that is a decent , strong, and safe housing/ adaptor setup that looks and fits right.

You might ask why I didnt just make a complete different bell housing? well the answer will be the final step in the plans. The input shaft is so much longer and the throw out bearing collar had to be adjusted for length, I will show you how I decided to create the proper throw out collar in the next set of pic's
' nite kidz

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:58 am

kick ass bill. i gotta tell you i thought you were full of shit when you first came on here

what you have done for this community is landmark. i appreciate what you have done here immensely even though i use a chevy tranny. keep the good pics and news coming.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:15 am

Thanks Dude,

It's funny, I keep forgetting you guy's don't know me, the local guys have seen me do this kinda stuff for years.
In the Detroit/Toledo area we have all the resources to build anything automotive, all my relatives are engineers or workers at Jeep, Detroit Desiel, Hydromatic ( GM transmission manufacturer) or Ford motor company.
So it all just comes natural.

Wish I was a kid again, all the engines and power out there to be had, lets just have some fun and nobody gets hurt.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:40 pm

Awesome! What kind of clutch disk are you using for mockup? I noticed that the DSM input shaft is flat at the end where the R154 is tapered. When I order a clutch, do I need to specify anything to get the spline set right? Or should it come out right if I just ask them to put a R154 spline on a DSM disk? I talked to a guy from South Bend Clutch a while back and he assured me they could do it. I just want to make sure it gets done right. That's why you're building the bellhousings. Cause we're sure it will get done right.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:57 pm

you scared me jeff, I thought something was wrong with my measurements, but the input shaft on the 154 is axactly the same as the w-55 it measures 1.840 on both shafts, I don't see any taper to it

This is the same disc I used whan I built the W-55 setup, just a stock 9" Toyta disc

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:44 pm

I meant the taper at the end of the shaft. Right before the end where it fits into the flywheel. The DSM unit cuts off at the end of the splines. Does the 9" Toyota disk fit the DSM flywheel and pressure plate? I know the DSM disk is just under 9".

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:26 pm

You need to machine a pilot bearing into the flywheel to accept that input shaft. And you'll need to get a custom fwd DSM clutch disk with the R154 splines. Any clutch company should be able to do this easily without hassle.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:33 am

No , there is no machine work needed for the 9"disc, it fits fine with the stock FWD flywheel, its the same spline
but yes you need to open up the center hole of the flywheel to allow the spline of the input shaft to rotate freely, because the pilot bearing is in the crankshaft end not the flywheel. I did that to move the whole trans assembly forward 3/4"

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:09 pm

In the crank... interesting. What bearing are you going to use for that?

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:07 pm

So your putting a bearing into the crank where say in the auto dsms the flexplate center ring would be? Are you providing the bearing?

I wasn't aware you were doing this with the pilot bearing. Wasn't aware about the Toyota clutch either. Did you mention this earlier? Must've missed it.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:47 pm

You know??????? I get soooooo involved i forget to say some stuff because I think its common knowelge (my bad ) but yeah, I showed everything you need when I posted under Eric's post in market place , with pic's.
I used a std Toyota pilot brg and made a bushing ( included) and use a std Toyota 9" disc
the problem with the W-55 was the collar for the throw out brg wasnt long enough so I decided to go through the flyweel and place the pilot bearing in the crank, to get the trans closer to the engine, well, in order to avoid confusion, I just kept it that way in the new design.
You dont have to build anything, its all over the counter stuff

I used the stock Mitsubishi clutch fork,pivot ball and the stock Toyota W-55 throw out bearing and collar

I used the stock Toyota over the counter 9" disc with the stock Mits pressure plate

I opened up the hole in the flywheel to 32mm so the input shaft could rotate freely inside of the flywheel

Then I used the stock Toyota pilot bearing with a bushing to fit in the end of the crank, I also used the stock hydralic cylinder from the Toyota

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:05 pm

I must've missed that post. Sorry Bill. But now it's all pretty clear as to what's going on. Thanks.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:37 pm

This is how I started the R154adapter, I needed to space the trans back and I needed to extend the throw out bearing collar forward

This spacer will house the existing throw out collar and allow for an extension to be installed

I think I will trim it down just a little more before welding it in place

I thought about casting the collar right on the adapter, but the original is thin, I have checked many transmissions , the aluminum collars are very thick compared to the cast collars, so I will be threading a steel collar at one end and threading this center carrier to create a proper collar

I worked most of the day building the centering tools for this thing

Now i have the right height and the work is perfectly centered

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:46 pm

the R154adaptor is done, all I have to do is prime it and hand sand it out , but everything is in the right place, I should have these available in two weeks [

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:31 am

I have been building a new drive shaft for a W-55 toyota trans swap and have found out the Toyota u-joints are not servicable and . fyi I got into a twin turbo Nissian 300zx and found out the same thing ( new drive shaft $800.00 )
I think its outragous! ( being from a very humble beginnings)

Has anyone researched a proper yoke that the u-joint can be serviced in and can handle the extra horsepower?
I would like to find out the right yoke for the R 154 and the w-55-59 systems
Thanx
Complicated Bill

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:04 pm

Now Bill what do you mean by non serviceable? You can replace the u-joints in a MKIII Supra. They are sealed units though. But you should be able to buy them individually. And rumor has it that they don't go bad.

Here is a breakdown of the driveshaft from a MKIII Supra if this helps at all.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:57 pm

I will re check it, somebody is bullshitting me and i dont why, but I do remeber some problems getting the right u-joints on some Toyota drive lines

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:08 pm

I would try to contact someone from Jawsgear. I guess they are familiar with the Toyota driveshafts and such.

JawsGear.com
1-866-617-5297

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:43 pm

Thanks Corey,

Have you bolted up the bellhousing yet? I sent one to jeff in Colorado the same day , but I see their weather is awful bad and he hasnt got it yet

Almost Stock TSi · Post by **Almost Stock TSi** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:50 pm

I am a master-tech for Toyota, if you need any prices on any parts let me know and I'll see what I can get.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:11 pm

Is the truck yoke the better set up for the w-55 - 59 trans? are the splines the same? I notice mention of a spicer u-joint in the 4whl groups.
What is the right unit?

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:13 pm

I sourced this from some website that is installing these into Volvo's.

"Note the Supra's output shaft uses a sliding spline / slip yoke affair vs for example a fixed flange attached to the output shaft with a big locknut in a Volvo. The ' yoke' information below details matching components used to adapt the gearbox to the tailshaft: (thanks Tulsi for finding mating parts from one manufacturer)

A) GEARBOX OUTPUT SHAFT SLIP YOKE: Supra 21 spline gearbox slip yoke (can be sourced from Dellow) or source from Hardy Spicer Part #17R-26-33 [Driveline products -> Mechanics type R -> 17R]. Toyota 5 speed family. This has a Ø25.4 mm (1") universal (uni) joint sizing. (This size is in-between Volvo uni sizes: Ø23.8 mm (15/16") or 27 mm (1 1/16")).

B) TAILSHAFT WELD YOKE: Matching weld-yoke is Hardy Spicer #17R-26-330 [uses a 1" uni, suits a 2" tailshaft tube, butt weld]

C) UNIVERSAL JOINT: Matching universal joint assembly is Hardy Spicer #RUJ-1786R (premium thrust washer type, internal clips)"

And I have yet to bolt up the bellhousing. But I might not have to work tomorrow due to weather so I'll probably do it then.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:37 pm

this is the pattern for the trans adaptor

You can see why I used a seperate adaptor, the center will need to be machined to accept a steel sleeve in the center to hold the throw out bearing

And this will space the trans back where I need it to fit the length of the input shaft

Its in the mold shop today so it will be a couple weeks before its back to me for the final machine work

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:42 pm

I received the R 154 adaptor back from the mold shop and started to machine them out

The first thing I did was to machine the flat surfaces and drill them to the R-154 bolt pattern

In order to place the R-154 as far forward as I could I shortened the input shaft by 5 mm, I could have avoided this but when I tested for length, I wanted as much of the input shaft spline engaged as I could with the clutch disc. With the shortened input shaft I have a complete contact area

This picture shows the sole reason I built this housing in two pieces, after mating the R-154 to the bellhousing, the throw out bearing shaft was 2" too short, I had to find a way to extend it, so I chose to built an adaptor with its own throw out bearing shaft included

the original throw out bearing shaft had to be cut flush and removed, notice the original seal is still in place, only the shaft is removed

The extended throw out collar is pressed in place

now you can see how the combination extended the shaft to carry the throw out bearing

I checked the fit between the clutch fork, throw out bearing and collar

This is a finished adaptor with the R-154 transmission facing bolted up to it from the bottom of the pic

This is the total package bolted up to the block, the bellhousing accepts the w-55 or 59 by its self, but with the adaptor it accepts the R-154, this unit uses a stocks Mits pressure plate and a toyota disc exactly like my first generation bell housing so everything made for a FWD 4G63 will bolt directly to this unit

Ready jeff? ready Corey?

feel the love???????

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:17 am

fucking wow. im in awe. thats some bad ass shit. kudos bill. any thoughts about doing something for a t5 or something similar down the line?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:00 am

Thanks WILD MAN! coming from you , thats awsome,you broke a lot of ground on your 'lil' Hemi, guys dont realize how much work and thought that took, building your car.
Its always nice when a 'made' guy likes your work

I can put ANY Trans to the back of the generic bellhousing as long as the input shaft is a small enough diameter and a long enough length.
I can adjust the thickness of the adaptor for proper length and the inside diameter of the throw out collar shaft for the proper diameter and accomidate any transmission to the 4G63 engine with my standard bellhousing

91turboGSX · Post by **91turboGSX** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:27 pm

I'm ready Bill! Well sort of. Still workin' on the engine setup but I am ready to get my shifter, tranny crossmember, and convert to hydraulic clutch all sorted out.

So when do I get one of these in my hands? As soon as you see a Paypal payment from me?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:14 pm

I will be sending mid next week, I gotta make a jig for the future pieces and I gotta draw the damn thing, I am taking a huge leap of faith by sending it alone, I wonder if we would be better off sending the complete matched set, these things are build like a house, one at a time, not out of a cookie cutter.
If you bolt up the bell housing to the trans you would know it centered on the trans but to know if its EXACTLY right you would need to bolt the trans to the block.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:11 pm

2/12/2007

The R-154 adaptors are ready

One is on its way to jeff ball in Colorado

and the other is sent to Corey ( turbo91) in Ma.

richb · Post by **richb** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:02 pm

Great looking adaptor. Beyond anything I'll ever need, but alwasy fun to look at someone else's work. Peregrine asked about the T5. Here is a link that might have some usefull information.

http://www.ddperformance.com/images/t5dia.jpg

Rich

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:05 pm

why is it more than you ever need? Rich

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:25 pm

so whats the final price on the whole set up?

richb · Post by **richb** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:04 am

-Why is it more than you ever need? Rich-

Bill,
I'm not running huge amounts of torque and power like all of you are. I'm just here to be educated on DSM and pick up some info for the swap I'm thinking of doing. That is the swap of a 4G61 and Km-132 into a MG Midget. The "Can a 4G61 1.6L be mated to a KM-132" thread. So far everyone has been very helpful.

I ran across the link on the T5 when I was looking for possible swap candidate and thought it might be useful to answer the input shaft length question.

I have been thinking about picking up a D50 since I've been reading the posts here. It kind of addicting to see what can be done.

BTW Bill. Is the white car in your photo an early 190SL? My Grandfather restored a '58 back about 20 years ago. He couldn't find any repair panels so he formed them all himself. He even made me a couple of front corners for the '68 firebird I had in High school. He learned metal working hammering wheel pants for aircraft at North American. The man could build/fix anything.

Rich

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:36 am

Rich B wrote,
BTW Bill. Is the white car in your photo an early 190SL? My Grandfather restored a '58 back about 20 years ago. He couldn't find any repair panels so he formed them all himself. He even made me a couple of front corners for the '68 firebird I had in High school. He learned metal working hammering wheel pants for aircraft at North American. The man could build/fix anything.

Yes , its a 1957 190 SL Mercedes Benz witha 400 hp 427 Chevy big block and all the panels are built in house, I have my own english wheel, pullmax, beaders and shrinkers.

I want to get feed back on these two housings out in the field with Corey and Jeff before I sell any units. ( you guys can pressure them to get'r done

) They wont have the units until Thursday

as for the price of the package, I am staying at my $350.00 figure, but there is more work on the way. I hope to work with Jeff Ball on a 5th bellhousing bolt found on the 2nd gen 4G63 plus an additional 6th bellhousing bolt on the starter side.
I am setting up a new casting bellhousing now to accept the extra mounting bolts and I am ' cleaning ' it up a little better , making it a lighter unit.
As for the combination of adaptor/bellhousing..............I nailed it Man................I just dead nutz nailed

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:07 pm

I never did find the best front yoke for the system, I used the standard Toyota front yoke on the last drive shaft , but that was for a w-55 trans, Corey ( 91 turbo) had some good idea's on what to use

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:08 pm

Bill Hincher wrote: I want to get feed back on these two housings out in the field with Corey and Jeff before I sell any units. ( you guys can pressure them to get'r done ) They wont have the units until Thursday

as for the price of the package, I am staying at my $350.00 figure, but there is more work on the way. I hope to work with Jeff Ball on a 5th bellhousing bolt found on the 2nd gen 4G63 plus an additional 6th bellhousing bolt on the starter side.
I am setting up a new casting bellhousing now to accept the extra mounting bolts and I am ' cleaning ' it up a little better , making it a lighter unit.
As for the combination of adaptor/bellhousing..............I nailed it Man................I just dead nutz nailed

Is 350 for the bell housing+ adapter? or just the housing?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:14 pm

Thats the bellhousing, the adaptor and the bolts and spacers needed for the swap.

That is for a 4 bolt bellhousing and adaptor, to fit a R 154 to a 4G63 narrow block.

I also still make the bellhousing for the W-55-59 series for the 4G63 narrow block

I will be adding a 6 bolt bellhousing for the 4G63 narrow block to a R154 for higher horspower applications

And I will be adding an adaptor to adjust where the engine is clocked so you can position your engine better

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:03 pm

what would be an ideal offset for clocking the engine to fit your needs?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:50 pm

it would make extra room for a supercharger

speedsex · Post by **speedsex** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:12 am

thought this may help , drive shaft shop sells output yokes for just about all the toyota transmission for replaceable solid u-joint s, im pretty sure dana/spicer makes them.

i would also like to say it looks like you do some very nice work , are there any other motors that you make bell housing for ?

-Donnie

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:51 am

Yeah, a guy on here named malibuJ wants me to look at the EVO3 engine, I did some research about reverse rotation and stuff, It looks like it will work, I gotta add a different lower bellhousing bolt boss and a 5th bellhousing boss like the 2nd gen 4G63 But that still doesnt answer questions about the length of the input shaft needed

I have been working on a new gen Billhousing that has 8 bolts between the bellhousing and the engine I will be posting pic's as soon as I get the spacer plate from Jeff Ball to build in the 5th bolt in the right place so they are interchangeable with the 2nd gen 4G63

2muchNOS in Navada wants me to build something for the T56 out of the F-body's I looked at it, and I think it would be easy enough but I think its gonna cost so much more and I dont know if its worth it.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:30 pm

That adaptor should get to you tomorrow sometime. That lower bolt hole looks to be the only difference in the DSM and EVO engines. Even the exterior casting looks to be identicle. I don't see why this would be more work than making another casting. If you made the lower section extra thick, you could machine away material to make the bellhousing either DSM or EVO flanged. (not sure if that made sense) I'm sure you'll figure out something.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:50 pm

this is just a rough look at what I been up to on the bellhousing, forgive the looks, I gotta finish out the style yet ,but you can see how it transfers the work into the main motor mount bosses that were from the factory

I wanted more support much more support so I built this mount on the starter side while I was waiting for the 2nd gen steel plate from jeff

Now you can see why I have always added the lower bosses in all my bellhousings, the idea for the extra mounting boss above the existing locater came from seeing Jeff's 2nd gen 4G63, it was no real extra effort to locate that upper boss while adding the support to the lower portion of the bell

I am using the cast aluminum bellhousing from the last casting so that the walls can be abit thinner and better looking so each time I work on the bellhousing it requires that I weld it and machine it, this is just how I located the extra boss in the bellhousing

This is the jig I made up so I get the same machine work every time and get a good looking fit

As soon as i can locate the extra bolt hole for the 2nd gen block, I will be making the same support on the other side and there will be 8 mounting locations instead of 4 , yu can put as much HP to that as you want to .
I would imagine you could use this on the auto trans conversions too

If you guys get tired of me talking too much let me know, I know I get complicated,.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:22 am

I am working right now on a shifter extention that is adjustable, you will see it for the R-154 and the W-55 but I kinda need to know where to start, how long is reasonable?

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:57 am

Cool. Mine is 25" from the face of the bellhousing. I wouldn't mind replacing it with something sturdier.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:02 am

lets work together on it draw something up for me