recommendations needed on block machining

[willmoodom]

Concerning the 4g64 wide block, I am still trying to decide on the wiseco/ eagle combo or the wiseco/ scat combo. Meanwhile what work do you guys recommend getting done to the block itself. BTW, This is for the g64/g63 hybrid and will be using the g64 crank in a rear wheel config. Is there a flat fee for a list of things done in a basic recondition like for $$ the block is magnuflux/hot tank...or is everything separate with a seperate price? This helps in getting exactly what I need and not be overcharged for un needed services. Is there a fee to mic the rotational parts like the crank and rods? whats the usual charge for machining in oil squirters? In order for me to calculate what I need to pay, I first need to know what I want done to the block. This will primarily be daily street driven but want to be able to bang them gears when the filling arise.

[DJpowerHaus]

You will need to speak to a machinist (or a few) and explain to them the specifics and they will have a pricelist for common jobs and should be able to give a quote for oddball things like oil squirters.

Required in most cases

• Hone (bore if necessary)
  Polish Crank (turn if necessary)
  Deck block
  Cleaning aka hot tank

[willmoodom]

You will need to speak to a machinist (or a few) and explain to them the specifics and they will have a pricelist for common jobs and should be able to give a quote for oddball things like oil squirters.

Required in most cases

• Hone (bore if necessary)
  Polish Crank (turn if necessary)
  Deck block
  Cleaning aka hot tank

I understand that no one can speculate on prices of block work. So is the list above considered basic work? And machining for squirters would be a specialty service. Do shops mic or measure the crank rods for specs when having having the block work done or is this something I have to ask for? I will be using the stock crank but the rods and pistons will be new. and I wont assume these items are spec correctly becuase they're new.

[DJpowerHaus]

I don't know. Do they? You'll have to ask them to find out. Each shop is different.

[emagdnim]

Save your money on the squirter's and use it elsewhere in the build, you wont need them if your fully built.

I'd recommend calling your local machine shop for the information you need on all the pricing.

I recommend you get it torque plate honed and make sure when you get the surfaces decked they have a surface RA below 40.

Magnafluxing is a must.

[Bill Hincher]

You always started the work with dip clean and magnifluxing, then you would 'line bore' the mains and re bore the cylinders making sure the cylinders were exactly perpendicular to the crankshaft, and the crank is in a true straight bore, then depending on the size of your piston ,you would set your deck hiegth,so that as the bore grew to be oblong, the piston could rock without kissing the head, the rods were sized and reconditioned, stress relieved and straightened, pistons are of the utmost importance, measure them and remeasure them and tailor each indavidual cylinder bore to each given piston, piston rings are purchased one size larger than the given piston size ,and then sized down to custom fit each bore
You never turn the crank, down sizing the crank creates more vibration at speed and rod bolts have a tendancy to stretch ,causing engine failure.
Measuring everything with a micrometer is the engine builders first and last job , the first time is to measure how worn the engine is and deciding what work and parts are needed, when selecting your parts you must know what size to ask for, pistons are reffered to oversized, rod and main bearings are reffered to as undersize one, two or three sizes. The last time you measure everything is during assembly, each part is custom fit using a micrometer to select which bearing is too loose and which piston is too tight and on and on.
After you select your parts and are ready to assemble , you balance the whole rotating mass in two different ways, first you static balance it, weighing every matched part, such as pistons and rods and you make sure each respective part weighs the same, then you balance dynamicaly, you spin the whole set up including the flywheel and the selected harmonic balancer to make sure you are totally in balance
The MAJOR advantage to building the wide block is the deck hiegth, it is taller then the narrow block 2.0 engine .you can fit it with a 2.0 crank and raise the piston pin location in the piston, allowing it to be fit with the longer rods, longer rods allow the piston to stay in the TDC position for longer period of time during combustion, that time is measured in crankshaft degrees, allowing a longer flame front to cross the crown of the piston
now you are ready for the head

[willmoodom]

You always started the work with dip clean and magnifluxing, then you would 'line bore' the mains and re bore the cylinders making sure the cylinders were exactly perpendicular to the crankshaft, and the crank is in a true straight bore, then depending on the size of your piston ,you would set your deck hiegth,so that as the bore grew to be oblong, the piston could rock without kissing the head, the rods were sized and reconditioned, stress relieved and straightened, pistons are of the utmost importance, measure them and remeasure them and tailor each indavidual cylinder bore to each given piston, piston rings are purchased one size larger than the given piston size ,and then sized down to custom fit each bore
You never turn the crank, down sizing the crank creates more vibration at speed and rod bolts have a tendancy to stretch ,causing engine failure.
Measuring everything with a micrometer is the engine builders first and last job , the first time is to measure how worn the engine is and deciding what work and parts are needed, when selecting your parts you must know what size to ask for, pistons are reffered to oversized, rod and main bearings are reffered to as undersize one, two or three sizes. The last time you measure everything is during assembly, each part is custom fit using a micrometer to select which bearing is too loose and which piston is too tight and on and on.
After you select your parts and are ready to assemble , you balance the whole rotating mass in two different ways, first you static balance it, weighing every matched part, such as pistons and rods and you make sure each respective part weighs the same, then you balance dynamicaly, you spin the whole set up including the flywheel and the selected harmonic balancer to make sure you are totally in balance
The MAJOR advantage to building the wide block is the deck hiegth, it is taller then the narrow block 2.0 engine .you can fit it with a 2.0 crank and raise the piston pin location in the piston, allowing it to be fit with the longer rods, longer rods allow the piston to stay in the TDC position for longer period of time during combustion, that time is measured in crankshaft degrees, allowing a longer flame front to cross the crown of the piston
now you are ready for the head

You know, before your reply, I had my self pumped up to assemble this thing myself. Now I'm scurd to death of messing with this. I consider myself highly capable when it comes to mechanics. I've done everything to a car multiple times but, never have I installed crank/rods/pistons into an engine. When I see it done, it looks so simple. when I run it through my head, it seems so simple. when I read how it's done, the hands start trembling and the second guesses start to come out. well, I know the assembly is the single most expensive service in relation to rebuilding the short block. Guess I better ask about assembly price aswell.

[DJpowerHaus]

Bill comes from the old days when everything was shit. You don't NEED all of those steps. You only need to fix any problems you find.

Do measure everything, I'm not saying you shouldn't, but don't think that ever little thing is required. Some things have been fine for thousands of miles. I'd worry that these things could be "fixed until they are broken".

Most of the parts we use doing these swaps have over 100k miles on them and are good for another 400k. Obviously if you pull the motor and it has blown the head gasket on every cylinder and spun a bearing, you may want to inspect it closer. With so many out there you might just want to move on to the next one. If it ran for so many years without a problem, I'd bet it has great looking bearings, the bores are straight, the journals line up. Check to be sure, but don't machine it just to machine it.

Turning a crank is not ideal but it sure beats throwing it away. My turned down crank has handled 8000rpm and 340hp all year. It won't make 1000hp like a new OEM one, but I'm sure it can handle 500.

I've seen people spend 5x the amount they had to on an engine only to have it blow up due to some external problem that would have happened regardless. They could have built 5 for the same price had they avoided all the little stupid things that 50 years of machine shops have convinced people they've needed.

[willmoodom]

I've seen people spend 5x the amount they had to on an engine only to have it blow up due to some external problem that would have happened regardless. They could have built 5 for the same price had they avoided all the little stupid things that 50 years of machine shops have convinced people they've needed.

That's exactly what I am talking about. I don't want to get taken advantage of with the shops telling me what I need that is not required.This is not going to be a high revving screamer for the track. Strictly a street performer with big balls.

[Bill Hincher]

Trust yourself, hot rodders have always tried new things and new ideas, building your own engine is nobody elses business, you do it your way. learn from it.
You have lots of hot rods in your future, if this one dont work out, you'll gett'er next time >;o)

[DJpowerHaus]

I think its that old "all your eggs in one basket" that scares me.

The biggest thing is the costs of failures. For a professional race team a failure may cost thousands of dollars or a sponsorship deal. On my car if it breaks it costs me a few hundred dollars and some embarassment. Maybe its good for you to spend $5,000 on building your motor perfectly (that's a low number). If I could I'd have 3 of the $5000 motors, but I can't so I've gotten creative.

I'd rather spend $1500 each on 3 adequate motors and deal with the failures with the added benefits of learning and changing things as I go. In the end you might find you only need to spend that $1500 once. Maybe twice, maybe 3 times, but odds are you wont spend more than $5000 before you get it rock solid.

But anyways. Its still good to check everything with a mic just to be sure. If everything measures up okay assembly is pretty easy. Gap your rings, torque your nuts and bolts... keep everything clean clean clean (3x!). If everything doesn't measure up perfect, run it by your machinist.

Have you found and talked to a machinists yet?

[willmoodom]

so far I've only spoken to a shop called rings and bearings here in rockville Md. I dont know about them folks.

[willmoodom]

you know, I envy you guys who are capable, through experience, of assembling an engine. I think that is the ultimate rush knowing you can go out pick up a piece of shit and 2 weeks later know it will be pushing what you want it to. Not worrying about how many miles is on the engine. i think I'll give it a go ahead. definitely save me a whole lot of money to invest in other areas of the car. And of course get my feet wet for the first time. Will a big person hold my hand Thanks for the pep.

[Bill Hincher]

just dont buy anything that has been badly overheated, you can replace the crank and bearings, but you cant put the 'temper' back into the core, if the engine was badly overheated, its junk

[willmoodom]

just dont buy anything that has been badly overheated, you can replace the crank and bearings, but you cant put the 'temper' back into the core, if the engine was badly overheated, its junk

Anyway top determine if a block has been overheated? I doubt the seller will dispose that info. honestly.

[DJpowerHaus]

Pay close attention to the head gasket. That will show if it had been overheated badly enough to warp anything. I've pulled a few heads that looked like they had a blow torch taken to them from compression gasses pushing past the gasket into the coolant passages of the head. There's your sign.

But anyways. Reading the headgasket is the best way to tell. I'd also steer clear of a motor with spun bearings if at all possible. Tracking down a good 2.4 crank is pretty tough by itself. Its almost easier to find the whole bottom end.