NEW GUY LOOKING FOR ADVICE...

B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:01 am

I just came across the site while searching for info on doing a 4G63 swap into a Mazda B2200 pickup. I currently have possesion of a 1G complete running motor and due to some faulty information and a lack of research on my part a B2600 2wd manual tranny. I now know that the motor is the small bellhousing pattern and the tranny I have is the wide pattern. I thought that the tranny was also the narrow pattern, but after trying to put the two together tonight, realized that they were not.

So now my problem, I know the D50/MM trannies are weak. I've heard 250 hp from others, I saw a post on here that said 300 hp. But regardless, not strong enough for my needs. I'm looking for somewhere in the ballpark of 450 hp, and knowing myself well enough, I know that I will beat the piss out of it just like everything else I've ever owned. The two options I'm looking at are this:

1-Get a D50/MM tranny and just hope it stays together. Use and build my 4G63 as planned. And hope my PTE 54 trim doesn't grenade the tranny. Seems like a pretty easy bolt up, no input shaft issues. Use a DSM flywheel with the center machined out for the pilot bearing.

2-Try to come up with a 4G64 wideblock and use the B2600 tranny. I was actually thinking of getting just a block and using my 2.0 crank to build a 2.1. I know a 2.1 is designed to rev high, really high. Which means no low end torque, and no fun on the street. I'm not sure if my decent sized turbo will make up for it or not. Does anyone know if there are any input shaft issues with this setup? What flywheel could I use?

So what to you guys think? Is the B2600 tranny (type III or "R", right?) that much stronger? Or am I going to have tranny issues regardless and be wise to just use the motor I already have?

PS--If anyone was wondering about my motor setup, so far it goes like this: 1G 4G63 N/T, planning to order rods and pistons as soon as I figure out this dilemma, have a SBR exhaust manifold, Precision Turbo 54 trim, 70mm Ford tb, GMAT and GM mass air, building a custom intake manifold, planning on Comp 10200 or HKS 272 cams and DSMlink, not to mention other things
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Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:43 am

That is a 87-88 B2600 transmission (top right in picture) you have correct? We could help you better if you do us all a huge favour and measure the length of the input shaft on the B2600 transmission with the bellhousing off. With that information we will be able to make your choice a little easier.

B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:25 pm

I think what you are trying to get at is which tranny it is, off a G6 or G54B, correct?

If this is what you are looking for then the tranny is from a G54B out of a B2600. I've never seen anyone mention this on this site, but a G6 motor was a B2600i. The B2600 was the MM/D50 2.6, same exact motor. When Mazda started using the 2600i, it was designed by Mazda. It is a completely different motor. Maybe that will clear up some confusion of everyone using the term B2600 for both.

If I just assumed you were asking something you were not, then tell me I'm a jackass and to go meaure my input shaft.
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Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:20 pm

Sorry I didn't make myself clearer. We need the measurement to compare it to the Rx-7 Turbo II input shaft so we have an idea what kind of difference there is when it bolts up. The TII can't be too short or it won't work with the B2600 bellhousing.

B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:27 pm

I think I'm confused. The way I read your last post, it seems as if you believe I'm running a Type II tranny, correct? I have a B2600 tranny, and from what I've found, it is a Type III. The best info I've found came from this site:

(Go to the Transmission section)
<a href='http://members.aol.com/solomiata/Drivetrain.html' target='_blank'>http://members.aol.com/solomiata/Drivetrain.html</a>

The info I've pulled from this site makes me believe that I have a Type III out of a B2600 with the bellhousing from the same truck. I've seen numerous people on this site using a Type II with a B2600 bellhousing, if I'm not mistaken. I'm still learning, so if this isn't correct please set me straight. I'm trying to figure out if I will have input shaft length issues with the B2600 tranny.

I'll try to go to my shop and take picures of my B2600 tranny (which is supposed to be a Type III and has a removable bellhousing) and pictures of my B2200 tranny (which is supposed to be a Type II and doesn't have a removable bellhousing) and measure the input shaft length so that I can answer your question.
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B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:18 pm

Ok, here goes:
Pic of my B2600 tranny, what I believe is a Type III with a removable bellhousing

Bellhousing pattern

As for input shaft length without the bellhousing on, I wasn't sure which "flange" (I guess thats what to call it) to measure from for length. Either the one closest to the end or the next flange after the clip. Here is a pic of what I'm talking about if you don't understand what I'm trying to say

Regardless, the measurement from the first flange is 5 5/16 inches

and from the second flange it is 5 1/2 inches

Hopefully that will answer your question.

As for my whole question on the Type II and Type III tranny issue, I took a pic of my tranny from my B2200 which is supposed to be a Type II. From what I've gathered it is the same as a non turbo RX7 tranny and obviously doesn't have a removable bellhousing. I'm just trying to figure out why everyone is calling the turbo RX7 trannies that they are putting B2600 bellhousings on a Type II when it, to the best of my knowledge, is a Type III and supposed to be the same tranny as a B2600 with slight different gear ratios.

The bellhousing bolts on the B2200 tranny appear to measure the same as the wide pattern, but the pattern looks different.

Thanks for the help in advance. If I posted too many pics, I apologize. Feel free to take them down and I can just put up the links to them.

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Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:10 am

When people say TII, they mean the Rx-7 Turbo II. The Turbo II is the desirable transmission to use since it is plentiful, strong, and bolts to a wide Mitsubishi engine with a B2600 bellhousing. Without your measurements, it was simple a guess whether the Turbo II would work or not. I knew the Turbo II was about 5.25", and now I know it should work without a problem that I could compare it to the B2600.

To answer your question, the B2600 is just as strong as the Turbo II. They are nearly identical except for the gearing. I don't personally have any experience with the Turbo II transmission, but many swear by it. I would expect it to hold around 400HP which is way better than the 2.0L transmission. If you're going to be boosting power, don't even bother with the narrow block. Since you've already done the hard part finding a B2600 transmission, it should be a hop, skip, and a jump for you to find a 4G64 block and crank. Get pistons, swap all the turbo components over, and sell the rest.

Where are you located? If you end up not using the B2600 transmission, there are a few people that would gladly take it off your hands.

B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:27 am

So no input shaft length issues then?

As for finding a wide 4G64 block and crank, that doesn't seem to be as easy as I thought it was. I spent the day trying to find one, but had no luck. I found a few narrow 4G64s out of Sonatas, but that doesn't help me much. Couldn't even find a wide pattern 4G63. I'm in the KC area so if anyone has one, I'm interested. Or if anyone knows someplace that sells them, please let me know. I couldn't come up with anything on Ebay either.

As for the tranny, if I can't find what I need fairly quickly, it'll be up for sale. I'll put it up here first.
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B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:04 am

Also, does the B2600 tranny require a pilot bearing in the flywheel like the D50 tranny does? I just got the tranny so I never saw the original flywheel off the B2600. Is there any way to look at the input shaft and be able to tell? That might be a stupid question but haven't really ran into a problem like that before.
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Mazda cx-9 history

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:00 am

Yeah it sounds like there won't be a problem with the input shaft. To be honest I don't know whether it uses a pilot bearing or not. I know the Starion flywheel doesn't use a pilot bearing though. I would give Mazda parts a call and ask them. Have you been looking for the G64B as well out of RWD Mitsubishi Vans?

B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:35 pm

I've been looking mainly in D50 pickups, but I know they come in Vans and Wagons too I just haven't been able to find them.
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Honda b20a engine

slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:15 pm

umm, the starquest flywheel DOES have a pilot bearing. If yours don't....... :unsure:

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:53 pm

Both the starion and D50 transmissions use a pilot bearing. Its the DSM ones that dont.

I'm glad to see all the photos! I STILL dont have my B2600 bellhousing. There is one up in Canada that I've been trying to get... $120 shipped for just the bellhousing. I have 4 RX7 transmissions sitting here (sold 1...well.. traded it for AN lines / EGT gauges / FPR)... anyways. Its been really busy around here but I think I have the time to give you some info on everything if you want measurements off the RX7 stuff I have.

Are the throw out forks different between the B2600 and RX7 bellhousings?

We did have time a few weeks ago to sit the starion and RX7 transmissions next to each other. Oh boy. they are so similar as far as dimensions. The shifter is 5" farther back (the B2600 transmssion is a different length BTW) than the Starion which helps should improve the stretching I have to do to shift. The speedo cable is the same (different gearing means it wont be acurate though). The mounts are very similar as well. Can't wait to get it all together.

As for finding a wideblock 2.0.. there are

The 2.1 revs high, but that DOESNT mean it doesnt have any low end.... more torque than a 2.0, less than a 2.4... but you can rev it that much more. That said, revs kill motors so you'll have to spend some $$ to get the rest of the engine to do those revs as well.

I'm still busy though.. I'll be fiddling with transmissions tomorrow so I should be able to get some photos. Sorry if this post doesnt make any sense, i'm very scatter brained right now.

B4G63 · Post by **B4G63** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:20 am

Thanks for everyones help so far with the info. Like I said before, I don't have a Starion, and all this isn't even going in a Mitsubishi. It's going in a Mazda B2200. I looked all day in the area for a wide block G63B or G64B but came up with nothing. Im in KC and checked Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska and didn't come up with shit. I did find a place in Utah that sells rebuilt short and long blocks. What I really want is a 2.4 for the extra torque. I called the guy and he sells a short block G64B that has had all the machine work done (deck, bore, hone, etc.) and completely assemble for like $611 plus like another $125 for shipping. I'd have to pull it apart and change to aftermarket rods and pistons, but it doesn't sound like to bad of a deal to me. The guy I talked to actually has an in-house machine shop and said he would do a bare 2.0 or 2.4 block with all the machine work done for like $400 but he said he would have to check around and find a block to do it. I was actually thinking at first trying to get just a block and putting my 2.0 crank in it to make a 2.1, but I really don't want to lose the torque or spin it that high. I'm still trying to figure out what to do, but not being able to find either motor in a junkyard is kinda putting a damper on anything I want to do.

DJ, is that a question for me about the shifter forks? I don't know what the RX7 tranny looks like, but I can take pics of my tranny fork and post them so you can see them if you would like. Let me know.

I have $200 in my whole B2600 tranny and bellhousing, so if I decide to get rid of it, that's how much I want for it. I really want to get my truck back on the road and try to track all this shit down is starting to get on my nerves and takkng alot of time so I'm really thinking about putting the stock motor and tranny back in for now until I come up with all the parts to do the swap and get the motor built. Or I might just sell it all and forget it. Regardless I need a wideblock 2.0 or 2.4 in the near future.
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slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:30 pm

anyone know if the fidanza uses the same type of pilot bearing as our cars??

blue1 · Post by **blue1** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:52 am

I think you will find fidanza only make flyweels for the FWD and AWD and they dont need a pilot bearing but if you know anyone with a lathe that is big enough to hold the flywheel "swing" its not a problem just make the hole size interference fit ( .0005 less than the bearing diameter)

Fabritory · Post by **Fabritory** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:20 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (blue1 @ Oct 6 2005, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think you will find fidanza only make flyweels for the FWD and AWD and they dont need a pilot bearing but if you know anyone with a lathe that is big enough to hold the flywheel "swing" its not a problem just make the hole size interference fit ( .0005 less than the bearing diameter) [/quote]
ummm sorry chief ....Fidanza makes RWD g54b flywheels

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:20 pm

I just realized how much farther that shifter is moved forward compared to the RX7. Probably a good 6". the B2600 transmission looks like it would go RIGHT into a starion with no problems. (i know you're not putting it it one, but still)

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:55 am

Here is the input shaft of my S5 RX7 transmission: