gearbox not selecting gear

S0LJAH · Post by **S0LJAH** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:43 am

hey guys the d50 behing my 4g63 is a real pain to select 2nd

it flat out refuses to go down from 3rd to 2nd and sometimes on the upshift, usually if your rough with it or give it a hiding it 1
it doeesnt grind or crunch just feels like its hitting a "rubber" wall
if im stoped i can pop it in reverse and then it will go into second easy as

i just thought it was synchros but after taking it get some work done on something else the guy suggested it may infact be the linkages and quite a simple fix, not requiring complete dissasemble of gbox

so what im wondering is anyone else had this problem? and what is it likely to be?

obviously i wont know untill i take the gearbox out if thats it but just curious as the rest of the gearbox is great no whines or clunks or anything

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sidewayz69 · Post by **sidewayz69** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:57 pm

i most likely feel is the linkages or the selector on the gear box
its bent or out of alignment

i was not getting 1st 2nd and sometimes reverse but my problem was my shifter
i had a 4speed shifter instead of a 5speed
the rear wheel drive sirus 2000 and 5fw box in a galent

S0LJAH · Post by **S0LJAH** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:01 am

hmmm

i managed to get it into 2nd a couple of times the other night
even if i double clutch blip the accelerator or try and match the gears it doesnt make a differeence then a couple of times it randomly went in

when it goes in it goes in perfect no grinding or anything

how hard is it to check linkages etc?
should i tryanother gearstick too?

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:59 pm

This goes into detail of how the clutch linkage works...and KNOWN failures.

I don't know much about D-50s, But I'm assuming this system would be ID.

If it uses a CABLE instead of hydraulics, cables are known to STRECTH.

http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php? ... 1a2232fe9d

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:51 pm

lol.

your kinda mistaken.

Your clutch in NOT totally disengaging. Sure...when you drop into reverse, you STOP everything rotating inside the trans, and that makes it a EASIER install into any gear...especially 2nd, which is arguing with you to SYNC....cause it's under a lil' load.

I did another chapter of how to REPAIR the 87 5 speed Starquest trans. Over 500 pics.

However the link I suggested....

you'll begin to understand that is A-TYPICAL FAILURES to deal with FIRST.

You'll hear guys suggesting to make sure it has a 1/2" of free play. WRONG!
that would be the MAXIMUN of free play.

CORRECT free-play is like .020". However...with the KNOWN WEAR (adjustment rod , clevis pin & pedal and a SOFT rubber slug bell) even .020" ain't gonna help for long...if it helped at all.

I'm a ACT dealer. When you buy a new product...it pften comes with instructions. In very small print, you'll read "RE-FRESH YOUR HYDRAULICS".

Of course...they've already SUCKED YOU for a new clucth.

What you READ in the SOS...has happened to THOUSANDS of Starquest.

With ONE PIC worth a thousand words....don't require much READING, but READ that lil' text. It WILL save your ass!

(and most likely your trans)

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:07 pm

Believe what you think.

Let your engine idle, without depressing the clutch pedal...try to push into any gear. Normally it won't grind....you just "hit a rubber wall" trying.

The TEMPERTURE has a bearing. Clutch/Brake fluid SHRINKS when it is colder outside.

If you see that BLACK CRAP in your reservoir....time for a rebuild or replacement.

Yep, we stock em' for a reason. Clutch master cylinders & slave cylinders & adjustment rods & clevis pins.....etc etc.

If you don't use that link, you'll never understand.

If you have to push the clutch pedal ALL THE WALL TO THE CARPET...to make it disengage......HINT! It SHOULD disengage about 1-2" from the carpet.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:50 pm

After a few more years of experience....

maybe you'll copy & paste this info.

If the reverse gear is synchronized (and these are) it happens to be EASIER to select reverse cause it sees WAY LESS WEAR....but again, it brings all the ROTATING PARTS to a COMPLETE STOP.

Now....it goes into ANY gear easier, ESPECIALLY 2nd.

YOUTH.....

The SOS duplicates INSTRUCTION pages from the FSMs too.

At SQC...Chad showed a pic of a worn-out adjustment rod.....BUT READ HIS TEXT. Simply replacing/rebuilding the hydraulics IS NOT ENOUGH.

I ripped apart a 87 yesterday. That was the VERY WORST CLEVIS PIN I HAVE EVER SEEN!!

Artinist had the worst one I had ever seen to that date. NOW....this one is even WORSE. Wait to you see this one.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:18 pm

That's good to know....finally.

Now, I'm gonna lecture you on what fails on CABLE operated clutchs.

I need to go see the parts catalogs to pin-point the other KNOWN failures of cable operated clutchs.

I gather it will have a cross-shaft inside the bell housing.....sames a Hyundai.

Btw...I have used aftermarket cables (made in Isreal

) hunks-of-shit cables that failed soon after. (strecthed too much for a PARTICULAR reason)

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:43 pm

As suspected, The "clutch control shaft" has a FORK (for the TOB) is attached by two ROLL PINS to the shaft. p/n MD701 722 (2) required

Those two roll pins are prone to crack...or snap. Even if just one fails, it's a tuff-time to select gears. Been there--- done that on a Hyundai.....TWICE!

Those roll pins are METRIC (7mm in a Hyundai I think) and are a PITA to procure. Some guys would replace with a SHOULDER bolt and a self locking nut.

Part #7 in the Conquest/D-50 Clutch chapter.

And the CABLE LEVER is WELDED to that shaft....and the weld can CRACK making shifting gears a royal PITA too.

I can't copy this from my CD parts catalog....but the D-50s trans are covered under the Starquest too.

NO! you'll never know until you DRIVE-OUT THOSE ROLL PINS! (or what's left of them)

Easy to replace a cable...BUT, if don't help much....DROP THE TRANS and remove the ROLL PINS! If they are NOT arrow straight, THAT'S THE CULPRIT!

I had to replace them in the Hyundai December of 2007....the second time.

135K miles. But, I had just replaced that cable too. NO HELP!

That Hyundai is a LOANER CAR!

S0LJAH · Post by **S0LJAH** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:19 am

whoa lot of replies

yea its a cable clutch
i dont think it is the cable thoug as its the smae one the car has had since 1981 and the pressure plate ive put in isnt that heavy (less heavy than previous one)
and its done it since the very first gear change

ive tried messing round with the cable adjustment but no help
clutch engages/disengages almost at the top of its travel

ive got a gbox here im going to spaw it with (have to do the clutch anyways as its slipping

so ill check the pins on that one before i put it in and then have a look at this one when its out

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:33 am

when you assemble the trans, make sure and use some valve grind compound and hand lap the syncro's to the back of the taper on the gear

all those gears are spinning in the trans when driving, the gears at the top of the speed range are spinning slower as you progress up to the higher gears , but when you down shift , the lower gears are spinning faster then the previus gear.

It is the syncro's job to slow down the spinning gear so that the shift selector can engage the spinning gear in a smooth fashion

If the syncro does not slow the lower gear selected, then a set of detents hidden under the selector gear will protect the spinning gear from damage by not allowing a rough engagement of a gear spinning too fast ( thus hitting the rubber wall)

by handlapping the syncros to the gears, it allows the syncro to slow the spinning gear faster and downshift is much easier

But it sounds like your clutch is ok, if it wasnt working , you couldnt get into reverse of 1 st gear without drag

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:04 pm

Had another lil' flash of a past clutch linkage failure:

My Porsche 930 (LONGGGGG cable operated linkage) the PAW located on the clutch pedal SHAFT is welded to the shaft. (replacement SACHS clutch)

You gotta be a mouse to even get down there to SEE this failure while you depress the clutch pedal.

I thought it was a bad cable so I replaced the cable. No help.

I get my ass back down in that area with a flashlight (removed the carpet & jute) and sure-as-shit.....that weld had a crack in it.

Had to remove the pedal assembly....clean the nasty ol' grease away....new pedal bushings and RE-WELD the PAW back on the shaft. FIXED IT!

As I recall the bushings got a retrofit BRASS bushing replacement at that time.

But....when BUSHINGS are worn out (shaft bushings in your trans or on your pedals) The cable has more & more resistance...AND STRECTHS THE CABLE.

Some manuals state the lenght of the cable.

If I suspect it (cause the adjustment is MAXED OUT and still won't disengage cleanly) I remove the cable, take it to a parts store and COMPARE THE LENGHT AGAINST A NEW ONE.

Here's TWO more known failure: PILOT BUSHINGS.......if it is worn or DRIED-UP, it DRAGS along the trans input shaft. No CLEAN disengagement.

The input shaft...if it's BUILD-UP with clucth material facing & grease, the disc don't like to BACK-OFF the flywheel....no CLEAN disengagement.

There's a lil' more info here:
http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php? ... 81e6e17b28

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:32 pm

Hell, here's one more:

Those BARREL BUSHINGS.....that stick-out from the rear of your engine,
TWO OF THEM....this aligns the trans to the engine.

If one is missing...or is JACKED-OUTTA-SHAPE, no CLEAN disenagement..

I've seen that before too.

Jed118 · Post by **Jed118** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:50 pm

[quote="Professor Quest"

[/quote]

That's a Hyundai Stellar (4G63) KM132 unit!

Tell you what, mate, I never had a problem with ANY cable operated clutch KM series transmission! Ever! That includes swaps I did at a young age where the transmissions were in all crooked because of bad crossmember alignment (rotted frames) as well as several bolts missing between engine/trans causing noticeable gaps... And I've owned over 10 Hyundais using that very series of transmissions. The only time I had a problem is when one of the gears (ironically, 2nd) popped out violently. After a few days, 3rd would do the same under moderate load, so I dismantled the transmission. Upon removing the drain plug plate, 3 bearings and a CHUNK of the main shaft bearing case greeted my face + eyes (I was directly under it, and 17 at the time). Needless to say, the added play from the bearing's failure put stresses on 2nd gear (item #6 in the 2nd picture), forcing it to release under load. I surmise the synchronizer got damaged, because for the last bit of it's life, third would not engage easily, or without double clutching. There were small brass peices everywhere. This particular pony had been owned by a mechanic and lifted 6 inches in the back to tow loads it was never intended to pull... other cars ON DOLLIES!

Anyways, never have I ever had a bent shift linkage, even after SEVERE thrashing doing burnouts with open end tails which resulted in MAD shifter movement... into the trans tunnel's casing, which received moderate bends from the shifter handle + case smashing into it repeatedly.

THe only forseeable problem is the nylon bushing (this is SUPER rare, i've only heard of it once, and semi-witnessed it on my own) at the base of the shift unit itself - it can crack and cause play. I had a semi-damaged one and all it did was made 2nd and reverse go in a little funny.

For no reason, gear info:

Does 2nd go in with the car off and clutch up?

turbostellar · Post by **turbostellar** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:38 pm

hey jed that pic is of the km119 transmission, due to the clutch fork, on the km132 there is a counter wieght at the bottom of the clutch fork

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:02 am

Wrong, jed.

That page was from the 87/89 Conquest parts catalog that ALSO covers the D-50s trans. It just CUT-OFF the top of that page.

And....I NEVER said it "bent the shaft". What "BENDS" is the ROLL PINS.
Rather...it is FATIGUED TO DEATH and CRACKS it.

A 1987 FWD Hyundai Acel, SE edition....1.5L, 5 speed, manual steering & windows, with A/C and a very SPORT TYPE interior. Nice lil' fuel saver @ 33-35 MPG. This is why I would loan it to customers that could not afford to rent a car.

But...I'm VERY GLAD to see those pics. I see a BRACKET attached to the bottom of the tailhousing. I WOULD KILL TO HAVE THAT TAIL HOUSING!

Do you have a clue of where to find one of those trans...as in what year, model etc those came with?

And....we happen to own so many new & used car locations, I can't even keep track of it all.

THE BUCK STOPS ON *MY* DESK! PERIOD!

I WILL NOT TOLERATE FAILURES WITHOUT INVESTIGATING....WHAT WENT WRONG & *WHY*!

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:50 am

Most people would throw away a failed part....understood.

But when it's MY ASS ON THE LINE.......STANDBY!

Yep...

TAG EM' & BAG EM' as "EVIDENCE" and FILE THEM!

Pics just for you........"mate".

Now...what does it say in the far RH corner?

C-L-U-T-C-H. As in this is about CLUTCH related parts, not TRANS PARTS!

Sooooo, since YOU brought up the trans, GO REVIEW THE PROPER WAY TO INSTALL A ROLL PIN IN THE SHIFTER LINKAGES TO AVOID A DISASTER!!

(psst, when you replace them...CLOCK THEM CORRECTLY!)

DO IT RIGHT......DO IT ONCE!

Only a suggestion: Order up TWO MD701722 and replace them as a CYA, slojah!

And part # 3...MD701285 is listed as a "packing". To me...this COULD be a BUSHING with a FELT PACKING to keep contamination away fron the Ali. BEARING SURFACE, which should be cleaned and INSPECTED for EXCESS WEAR...and can you GUESS what that WEAR would do when you want to SHIFT GEARS?

(that also means the shaft outta fit tight too) NO SLOP!

I do so dislike a....confrontation.

Jed118 · Post by **Jed118** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:28 am

Your first picture had interference (more than likely from an actual picture of the screen... the scanning lines and the shutter speed aren't matching the scan lines of the old tube monitor.

) so I could not read much off it.

You could, of course, hit "print screen" directly adjacent to F12, above insert, between the main keys and the numeric keypad, paste the image into MSPAINT (I'm sure your windows 98 box has this) and edit it accordingly... I dunno just a thought before you start your self-powered quest to right everyone.

As for the tailhousing, you may not have to go on a murderous rampage to acquire one. Simply go to car-part.com, 1984-1987 Hyundai Pony or Stellar, select "transmission" and then select the trans you want (probably 5spd) and hit "find".

These transmissions could be had cheap, and if there's one near me, I'll even see if I can pull off the housing myself (100 sq kilometers around Mississauga, ON) or if you can wait, I'm sure my DOHC 2.4 will quickly destroy my KM119 in no time, at which point you can have mine.

I don't know if this is of any use to you, but hyundai of that year also used Aisin-Warner (as well as Borg-Warner) 03-55 3spd auto transmissions.

If someone could find one of those and pull the bellhousing from it... THAT is worth killing for!

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:47 am

Thanks for the tips & instructions. I suck at being a secretary.

Hyundai Pony & Steller?

Never even heard of those models. Did they come to the USA?

If it's a BOLT ON HOUSING, (to a KM132) I wouldn't have needed to build my own.

Guess I'll be exercising in the boneyards.

SWAGing here: (scientific wild-ass guess) The SMALLER 4 cylinder had a more pronounced vibration...and that tailhousing was built to add a VIBRATION ABSORBER?

Thru 1987 KM132s had another problem. The THRUST PLATE would wear down creating too much END PLAY on the mainshaft, throwing it outta 1st gear.

If not corrected SOON, the trans would self-destruct. Boneheads think it had to much HP & TORQUE. Wrong.

The TSB replacement: REAL MACHINED STEEL that is flame hardend...vs STAMPED STEEL!

I can only suspect that COULD be a problem on ANY of those import trans that were built by the SAME manufactor. I think ABUSE + increased TORQUE had something to do with that failure.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:59 pm

Here's another known failure of the pre-88 KM132s:

That TIN-PAN belly cover allowed the housing to EXPAND!

This creates the CHAIN REACTION!

The cure:

Jed118 · Post by **Jed118** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:44 pm

No Pony and Stellar in the US.

The first ones were catalyst-free, so Cali held them back... fools!

I don't see why they didn't allow the 1987 and up Stellars (later fuel injected... the ONLY hyundai to have TBI) into the US and rebadge it as a Sonata (which is what directly replaced it) I mean they had the two way vat fitted...

The Saturn motor is known to shake significantly... esp. with the choke on partially. Problems that arise with some split peice stellar trans (KM119 and KM132) occasionally the hanger bearing fails, causing vibration to damage the output seal....causing, well, leaks and in my case, gears to stop shifting (Im cursed with a 4spd "electronic" transmission).

And yes, the KM110 and 119 share the same flimsy gear cover plate... I thought I was gonna tear mine off last week when replacing the gear oil!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:56 pm

PQ. Where did you get that clean transmission?

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:47 pm

You have one too....soon as you use your die-grinder and a asortment of high-speed wire brushes. True, we'll de-grease it and power-wash the crap outta it FIRST.

And...I'll hit the casting lines with a file too to smooth er' out a lil'

You could go OVERBOARD by polishing it....if you want to.

The REASON you can't view the 500+ pics on rebuilding the KM-132
(many compliments I recieved for saving them some serious money)

IS: The Lord givifth....the Lord takes it away.

I spent several MONTHS to create that chapter, and I LOANED it to people that....as it turns out, ARE CON ARTIST! my bad.

GONE! (but stored)

Matter of fact....I GAVE that transmission away.

Maybe....2, 2 1/2 hours to amaze myself.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:21 pm

Jed118 wrote:No Pony and Stellar in the US.

The first ones were catalyst-free, so Cali held them back... fools!

I don't see why they didn't allow the 1987 and up Stellars (later fuel injected... the ONLY hyundai to have TBI) into the US and rebadge it as a Sonata (which is what directly replaced it) I mean they had the two way vat fitted...

The Saturn motor is known to shake significantly... esp. with the choke on partially. Problems that arise with some split peice stellar trans (KM119 and KM132) occasionally the hanger bearing fails, causing vibration to damage the output seal....causing, well, leaks and in my case, gears to stop shifting (Im cursed with a 4spd "electronic" transmission).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------frick

Newer tansmissions.....they DAMN WELL KNEW, that a GASKET would allow that tin-pan to slide around a lil'.

Soooo, no gasket BUT....they would pratically SUPER-EURETHANE the cover on...to turn two parts into ONE PART. But TIN...*IS* tin.

The 88/89 cast Ali cover was a great idea...but those are OBSOLETE...no can buy them NEW.

*MY* belly cover is: $125....1/2" ,4 dowel pins (with instructions) and the longer bolts. (dowel pins won't allow the housing to expand)

You would UPGRADE the THRUST PARTS and MAYBE the 1-2 selector fork (if worn) install a REAL belly pan.....GO HAMMER DA PISS OUTTA IT!

The "CHAIN REACTION" I SWAG....

You got the car running great.....
You need a better clutch....
You TURN YOUR BACK ON THE LINKAGE and ABUSE YOUR TRANS!
And yes, the KM110 and 119 share the same flimsy gear cover plate... I thought I was gonna tear mine off last week when replacing the gear oil!