making a smog legal intake

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:45 pm

I decided to do this since I live in california and i really dont want to have to swap engines just to pass smog every 2 years. i talked to a local smog place and the tech told me that the egr did have to be near the t.b. so i came up with an idea consisting of an evo 8 intake with the flange cut off to be welded to a dsm flange, and a daewoo egr pipe to transfer exhaust from the dsm egr port to the evo egr intake port.

I took pictures to help describe what im trying to do here

dsm intake (egr would be on the wrong side, if t.b. would be switched)

evo 8 intake (has tb and egr mount in correct location needed)

daewoo egr flex pipe

the evo flange would need to be chopped off for 3 reasons #1 the egr port is on the wrong side #2 the injectors mount on the intake rather than on the head of the 1st gens, and #3 the runners are too small for the head ports

the dsm intake flange would need to be cut off and welded to the evo intake runners

this is were the evo intake would need to be cut

this is were the dsm intake needs to be cut

this is were the egr pipe would need to be welded into on the dsm flange

this is were the egr pipe would connect to the evo intake

heres a mock up of how the egr pipe should be fitted to the dsm port

heres how the egr pipe should run to the evo egr port

any ideas on how to improve this would be greatly appreciated
thanks david

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:21 am

good post David!
The EVO intake runners look much shorter then the first gen 4G set up, can you measure the difference?
I cut up an old manifold just to see where the ports go

this is the original routing

It really doesnt matter to the Exhaust gas how far it must travel because its under pressure so you can tap into this side of the port and extend it to the other end of the intake manifold

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:50 am

thanks bill, i will measure the runner lengths and some other differences asap

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:28 pm

i came across a hyundai sonata at the junkyard so i just had to swipe up the intake, looks bigger

here are some measurements that i took on all 3 intakes
(sorry some pictures didnt come out as clear as i was hoping since i was holding a camera in one hand and a measuring tape in the other while trying to balance the intakes and get a good shot)

evo (8" length, 8" height

dsm (8" length, 9" height)

sonata (aprox. 9 1/4" length and 10" height

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:28 pm

How do they determine if the EGR functions on your car? I don't plan to run one, but in case I should have to pass a smog test, what will they test? Also, what other things will need to be "functional" on the motor to pass emissions?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:54 pm

EGR valves are going to be a thing of the past, they were used to correct an overheating problem in the cylinder head temp because of the very lean stichiometric fuel mixture. the temperature in the cylinder heads got so high that not only were the engines burning the oxygen out of the air , but also the nitrogen. when you burn nitrogen your produce nitrous oxide which never gets replenished in the air, once its expelled from the engine, it never get returned to nitrigen.this only happened when you are at cruise condition with a very light load and a warm engine, because thats when you are using the least throttle at any given time .
when you richen the fuel mixture , even a little bit, you never use the EGR valve in the system again
We are not seeing them on the newer cars because the engineers have adressed the problem within the ECU's

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:28 pm

smog is so strict here in california that even if you do have a car that passes smog but you dont have a egr, its an automatic fail. i actually set up an apointment with a smog ref so i can learn about the do's and don'ts on smogable swaps. in our case (taking an originaly fwd 4g63 and made to work for rwd) since theres quite some things to customize, the doorway to legalize becomes smaller, atleast here in california.

atleast the ref sounded interested in the whole project and my interest to smog legalize it, so hopefully i can learn some things and pass it on to people that plan on smoging the turbo 4g6

bill, i will keep in touch with you, since maybe i wont even need to chop flanges and i would just be able to use a stock dsm intake with the tb mount reversed.
anyway i'll keep you guys updated

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:31 pm

woops

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:46 pm

heres some good info that i found, after reading the part that says that everything needs to be in stock confrigation, i thought of bill and his mad fabricating skills

here you go

16. Legal Modifications:
Engine swaps are legal as long as the smog referee approves. Typically this is done to replace the original engine with a much bigger one (for example, putting a Subaru 6-cyl into a water cooled Vanagon). Referee approval is not done as a matter of simple crankcase replacement or repairs.

Because all FI models are virtually identical it's not worth mentioning to the smog tech (in fact never do this) if you happen to have a 78 engine code in a 76 bus or vice versa. Engine replacement is common with VWs so just cross your fingers they don't care about the engine code. What does matter is that you swap over the intake and exhaust systems along with the engine.

If this becomes an issue while testing, the smog referee will have to determine if your swap is acceptable. This means he will be looking for all of the specified devices and any indicators on the dash. If he deems the swap acceptable and you pass the emissions test, you will "youth" the vehicle. For example, a 1976 bus with a 1978 engine will be smogged as 1978 ever after. This would only matter if the exemption cutoff was extended to include 1977 models.

What can never be approved by the smog referee is a swap to an earlier model engine. Even though all single and dual carb baywindows are exempt you cannot replace a 76-79 engine with an earlier one.

Other than an approved engine swap you cannot tamper with any part of the engine. It must be in factory configuration but many of the ignition system upgrades have carb approval in the form of executive orders. One such item is the Pertronix Ignitor. Since it installs under the distributor cap no one even knows it's there until they look but it's good to know anyway.

AFAIK, any electronic ignition can be legally fitted to any VW model.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:33 pm

What is the cutoff year for smog testing? Are all vehicles expected to get smog checked, or is there a year in which you are exempt? I thought that 76 or 77 vehicles and earlier were not expected to pass emissions due to there not being emissions laws at that point of production.

And since I am putting a newer motor in, will I be expected to test it as a newer year, or am I still exempt being that the car itself is exempt? Where can I find all of this info? I'd like to stay legal just for the sake of it, but I may not follow the letter of the law.

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:14 pm

the info that i posted was california rules. im not to sure about co. smog rules though, but i can imagine they arent as strict as cali rules. as far as years for exempt, i can do a search for you and pm you or post the details for your state

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:32 pm

heres a bit of info on co.
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/ap/mobile.html

4g63mightymax · Post by **4g63mightymax** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:17 am

For what it is worth, I passed a Massachusetts emissions test with a 4G63 in my Ram 50. The test was done on a chassis dyno, with a load on the engine, and with the smog sensor in the tail pipe. I just made sure I hooked up the EGR properly, and I have a 3 inch straight through catalytic converter. My throttle body is on the opposite end of the intake manifold, like most swaps, but the EGR still seems to work fine. I ran normal 91 octane gas and didn't do anything weird to cheat the system, I just hooked up everything and passed the test. I would think that if your engine is running properly, in stock form, with all of the emissions crap hooked up, you shouldn't have a problem passing the California test.

Luckily, Massachusetts has smartened up, and are only doing emissions testing on post-1995 (OBDII) vehicles. So if I want to put a twin turbo 572 crate hemi under the hood of my 1989 ram 50, I can do so.

-Jeremy

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:32 pm

wow, thats good news. so you had the egr on the stock location? i always thought that the egr port had to be close to the tb, but then again the person that i had asked about that was a kid that worked at a smog shop. i could've gotten false info.
youre so lucky on smog exempt vehicles in your state, over here the damn terminator is making everything impossible, he even froze exemption as years go on, i think it stopped at 76 and older were exempt

4g63mightymax · Post by **4g63mightymax** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:34 am

I would bet that having the EGR port near the throttle body would spread out the exhaust gases better when the EGR valve is opened, but it seems to work just fine with the throttle body on the opposite end. I wonder what kind of pressure the exhaust gasses are under? I assume it would be slightly less than cylinder pressures (150psi ish?), which is a whole lot more than the vacuum that would be in the intake manifold at highway speeds when the EGR's opens. This pressure difference may be the reason why the exhaust gases still seem to mix in the intake and allow me to pass an emissions test?

Bill? anybody else? thoughts on this?

-Jeremy