Turbo 350 trans adaptor

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:34 am

lets start out with a new sheet of paper
we should start with idea's about what you guys want in an automatic option for frag racing
we can do a lot better job that what is out there now, what trans do you want?
I would like a complete GM unit from flywheel to out put yoke, but if you are looking for something different, now is the time to let me know

Hincher

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:55 pm

TH350 or TH400... the powerglide's will bolt up to the adapter as well.

But, A Complete GM unit in the mitsu would be the shit!

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:56 pm

Oh, BTW... I'm probably going to be using a TH400

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:55 pm

Bill, how about a dual bolt pattern like the 200r4..?
B O P and chevy.
I had one in my 72 Monte Carlo and the first gear was around 2.80?? and final was around .68 (700's have a 3.08 first)
In addition, the 200r4 can get a 'retro kit' that uses a vacume switch for the lockup..
You could drive to the track and back..

I could get you a rough mold with some sealer and a paper

Emag, The 400 has too much parasitic drag for a 4cyl, and HEAVY! compared to the T350. (tons of articles on them)
I'd go with the T350 short shaft (car, NOT truck [ about 6" longer]). You can get deeper gearsets for 1st and 2nd also that drop them around 20+% so the first two give a good launch and the thrid stays at 1:1. And the 200r and 350 have the same yoke and length.
In my 66 Impala, I'd get great spin for 1st, little spin for 2nd and a chirp for 3rd. with just a warmed over 350.

Just my 2cents..

Errol

89coltgt · Post by **89coltgt** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:43 am

That is a great idea Bill. It is funny, I was thinking about this the other day myself as I was debating if I wanted to go with an auto or manual. I think it would also be a great idea to make a flexplate that would work with an off-the-shelf standard torque converter.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:03 pm

I got an old chevy short block, is there any changes in the cranks? I know the 400 small block was a bit different, but I donno about the rest of them, I can buy brand new flywheels from the race supply place for about $35.00 bucks
its depends on the nose of the torque converter as to how I build this adaptor, I have to have enough clearance to allow the nose of the converter to center its self, I might just place a new center in the flywheel instead of building a spacer

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:31 pm

Bill there isn't any differences that I know of with the Chevy 400's The external dims are all the same.
The only thing was the #5 rear main cap had some differences and of course the external balancing.
The difference wiht the 'flex plates' was a two sizes. One was a 168 tooth and the other was a 140 or 150 something.
I never worried about them because I would just go and buy a SFI approved flex plate that most always come with the dual pattern for the different converters. And they are a LOT thickere
The 'nose' of the GM convertors should fit in any of the flex plates

I just tossed out a whole trailer load of metal yesterday and found 4 flexplates. 2-400's and 2-267-350 style in my storage.. You need one??

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:52 pm

I know the nose of the torque converter will fit the flywheel, but it must fit the back end of the crankshaft center hole as well
I have a complete trans / engine combination, I just gotta tear it all down

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:12 pm

Actually from what I've seen is there is a good amount of movement fore/aft of the converter, where the hub goes into the front pump of the trans. About 3/16.
You just don't want to pull it out too much and disengage the pump. Kinda like a horizontal mill chewing the pump up.

Once you tear it down, I think you could measure the radius of the 'swing' for the Mitsu with the ring gear, distance from that to the mating flange of the mitsu block, --thickness of said adapter-- then the distance from the flexplate mounted on the converter while seated in front pump.. Piece of cake..!!

But I know you'll make it better than I ever could/would.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:56 pm

I will have to measure the distance required to fit the depth of the torque converter compared to an existing depth of the original chevy engine first, then find the center of end play travel of the original torque converter , center the end play, that will tell me the thickness of the adaptor plate because the transmission side of the adaptor is now the back of the original chevy small block engine
The starter gear must engage the chevy ring gear, so while I could place the existing Mitsubishi starter in the proper location, the gears from the Mistubishi starter would not properly engage the chevy ring gear
there are many , many Chevy starters available, I will search for the proper reduction style starter for a small block chevy to use

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:13 pm

I would think the challenge would be the flywheel itself and mounting it to the Mitsu motor. You might try to find yourself a flywheel (flexplate) from a Mitsu auto car and see what is going on there. From there I would guess you could make the proper adapter or spacer or whatever to mate up to a standard GM style converter. Maybe I don't know what the hell is going on here, but that is how I would go about it. Start with factory style parts and figure out how to put them together.

You might also see if there is something different with the electronically controlled GM transmissions as well. The 700R4 or whatever. I'm sure GM did a good job of keeping all the bolt patterns the same, as well as compatibility of converters and such. Just stick with the small block stuff though. It's so cheap to buy stuff for those things.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:33 pm

the existing Mits auto trans flex plate is just a star, the ring gear is attached to the torque converter.
the goal will be to keep it all affordable with over the counter parts, I cant imagine anything more affordable or availabe than the small block chevy for parts, If I can adapt the GM flex plate to the Mits crank ( not too hard) and then biuld a flat plate to match the engine to the trans ( really not hard to do) and bolt up a chevy starter , the whole thing is a snap with the big plus of putting any converter you want in it, NO CUSTOM PARTS!

but the starter wieghs two tons and sets soooo low. I would preffer something nicer

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:04 pm

even the nice chevy starters at jegs are cheap.

Oh, and starion's have the same 6 bolt pattern so it will work for them as well... thats what i'm liking at the moment.

Sounds like you got a plan Bill.

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:21 pm

Also, if you need me too i can send you a wideblock to auto tranny adaptor... ill just need your new one in return..

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:05 pm

I just been screwing around with some scraps

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:08 pm

Fuck yea.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:23 pm

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh emagdoman. pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze dont get ' unnecassary' over the adaptor there are other sites on the web you may want to try for that. in any case , try not to get 'hairs' all sticky and caught in your keyboard. it aint funny,I have gone through 3 keyboards

what parts number did you have on the starter and do you want the 164 tooth flywheel of the 154?

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:50 am

Bill, i have no clue WTF you are talking about.

I'm a mitsu guy, and all i know about this chevy crap is that it's holding mitsu power.

so, with that said... whatever's lighter!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 07, 2008 8:13 pm

what about the chevy V-6 RWD out of a van? is that the same as the V-8? it looks like it

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:13 pm

The 4.3 astro?? I'm pretty sure it has the V-8 bolt pattern too, I don't think they changed the pattern for RWDs till you got down to the old 2.8 V-6s.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:15 pm

yeah, the bellhousing is the same but I was thinking more about the flywheel and crankshaft bolt pattern

slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Thu May 08, 2008 6:26 pm

not sure if it was intentional, but i actually lol'd at your Frag racing in the first post...

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu May 08, 2008 6:35 pm

nothing is ' unintended '

89coltgt · Post by **89coltgt** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:06 am

Bill, is this going to be a complete bellhousing? If so, what is required to replace the bellhousing on a th350 since it is one piece?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:26 am

no, it will be a flat adaptor plate withan adaptor from the Mits crank to the GM flywheel, it will use all GM parts such as starter,flywheel and convertor

89coltgt · Post by **89coltgt** » Sat May 10, 2008 7:32 am

Bill Hincher wrote:no, it will be a flat adaptor plate withan adaptor from the Mits crank to the GM flywheel, it will use all GM parts such as starter,flywheel and convertor

Cool, I will probably just go with this setup now since I have the trans and I won't have to spend a small fortune on a converter.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat May 10, 2008 8:09 am

I want to be able to use this set up

http://www.jegs.com/p/Hughes+Performanc ... 2/-1/10537

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:12 am

Is your Mitsu flex plate SFI-29-1 approved?

Might have to use that as a sig after its done..

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:27 am

Oh.. this is sexy...

http://www.jegs.com/i/Meziere/680/FP300/10002/-1

89coltgt · Post by **89coltgt** » Sun May 25, 2008 5:24 pm

Bill, how is the gm stuff coming along?

DragCorolla · Post by **DragCorolla** » Sun May 25, 2008 6:12 pm

TTT for this thread, this would be the ultimate Bill, cause whats out there
today is NOT affordable.

The GM Auto route is awesome IF affordable, we didn't have many options for our Corolla, it was basically either an expensive Jerico setup or GM auto, but if Bill can put together a nice package (as I KNOW he can) alot more people can enjoy the strong GM auto route...

As a mather of fact, I'm very surprised no one hasn't done anything like this beside Buschur, Just put a built Powerglide for 1000 bucks in youre 4G63 car and forget any transmissionrelated problems...

89coltgt · Post by **89coltgt** » Sun May 25, 2008 7:29 pm

Anyone know what rpm rating the sfi 29.1 flexplates have and what a converter can typicallly handle as far as rpm?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:05 pm

I went into overdrive on the GM adaptor yesterday and today ( I dont have pics yet)

but I programed all my numbers into the computer, the Engine side had to be done in metric and the trans side had to be done in inches.
The starter is what I have to decide on to use the GM flywheel
jegs offers this set up
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/751066/10002/-1/10689
this way I could take the block off this starter and place it correctly in the adaptor plate in the Mits original position and use the GM flywheel
from what I can gather, the starter / flywheel / and converter of your choice would run about $500.00, all I need to supply is a flat aluminum plate and a flywheel adaptor
http://www.jegs.com/p/Hughes+Performanc ... 2/-1/10553
from the numbers for the Bushur set up I have seen its costs $250.00 for the flywheel, $400.00 for the adaptor plate and $800.00 for the convetor

I will post pics tomorow

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Oh my... I'm already in love.

coltboostin · Post by **coltboostin** » Tue May 27, 2008 1:40 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:I went into overdrive on the GM adaptor yesterday and today ( I dont have pics yet) but I programed all my numbers into the computer, the Engine side had to be done in metric and the trans side had to be done in inches.
The starter is what I have to decide on to use the GM flywheel
jegs offers this set up
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/751066/10002/-1/10689
this way I could take the block off this starter and place it correctly in the adaptor plate in the Mits original position and use the GM flywheel
from what I can gather, the starter / flywheel / and converter of your choice would run about $500.00, all I need to supply is a flat aluminum plate and a flywheel adaptor
http://www.jegs.com/p/Hughes+Performanc ... 2/-1/10553
from the numbers for the Bushur set up I have seen its costs $250.00 for the flywheel, $400.00 for the adaptor plate and $800.00 for the convetor

I will post pics tomorow

You have PM...

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:50 am

I have the 168 tooth flywheel, it has both bolt patterns for two different sized torque converetors and the cheaper convertors were all listed at the larger sized flywheel

this starter will work fine, I just need to take off the bolt plate and bolt it into the adaptor plate

I cut up an old power glide to get the bolt pattern and test the centers

DragCorolla · Post by **DragCorolla** » Thu May 29, 2008 5:35 pm

Great, Keep up the good work Bill

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Thu May 29, 2008 10:02 pm

Hell yea.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:13 pm

I recieved the convertor and adaptor plate from drag corrola guy in Sweden, man it was rough, the plate wouldnt fit the block

the guide pin holes were drilled undersized and wouldfit the pins

the starter wouldnt fit in the hole so it was cocked

I redrilled everything square and resized the starter hole

then I stared on the new adaptor system

I spent the better part of last week gathering information and loading my computer with the bolt hole patterns

this is just a rough draft

I needed to kick this out just to find the depth in certian are's

the inner bolt pattern is for the mits crank and the bolt heads are counter sunk under the GM flywheel

I am going to have to use the 154 tooth flywheel instaed of the 168

the 168 tooth flywheel is too big to fit the starter neatly

kuroi · Post by **kuroi** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:16 am

You sir are indeed a genius, no joke...

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:02 am

Jesus bill, that shit is sick.

Is that tranny adapter 1/2 thick? If so i can use the one i already have for the wideblock?

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:18 am

oh yea, ill gladly use the mock up version for testing and to sell more for you.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:05 pm

I had to get the starter indicated so I centered the flywheel and chucked the starter gear into the mill

because I can measure from center with the DRO in the bridgeport, I can locate the starter hole EXCACTLY >;o)

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:20 pm

i love you.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:48 am

I cut a new plate because the starter must be completely re located and the engine/trans alignment was bad on the first one. I also extended the lower skirt to accept my lower mounts and to provide the 8 mounting bolt system instead of the 4 bolt system

I was very happy with the starter location because it was tucked in and out of the way

the starter / flywheel alignment came out within the .020 thousands required, the next step will be the proper depth of the starter gear

a new starter adaptor had to be built to allow proper depth alignment of the starter

while I was building in the proper depth of the starter, I drilled it so it could be indexed in any rotation, that way it can fit multipul steering gears and intake manifolds

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:39 pm

BAAAADDDD ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:35 pm

you is easliy amused, emago man

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:19 pm

It's mindgame backwards.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:18 am

I had to factor in the depth of the starter position and make it accessable to service once it was in the car

this is a simple collar that locates the starter index and bolts to the adaptor plate in a more traditional import way

I was very pleased with how the starter fit and located

the required depth was .140 thousands, I am within .002 thousands

I will be trimming down the excess off the plate to follow the contour of the bellhousing

I wanted to double check my math on where the torque converter would locate for depth

It fit pretty good , I may put a little more depth in the torque converter/flywheel distance , just to be sure

the adaptor lays in there perfect

my next step will be to repeat the index measurements of the centerline of the trans input shaft into the crank center line of the engine

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:02 am

Hey Bill I've been a thinkin if the weight of the vehicle being used for this would have to be lighter..?
Just because I thought of this adapter for the civic build and would be using the colt turbo engine (1.6) and this engine just doesn't have the mass spinning like my V8's would.
Where would the weak link be if your stall is around 3000 but your shift points are around 5000+..? (my 66 impala shifted at 5200 wot)

Race peeps have all told me that the more torue you have the converter will actually multiply it. SO if I"m spinning this 1600 up would I need a 'tighter' converter or actually less stall like say a 2200?
The whole car should weigh in around 1700-2300 depending on how much the front suspension ends up to be.

I'm starting out with the 1600 since it runs already and is pretty low mileage (102k)

OH, what's the 'about' price for your whole kit..?

Errol