Fuel Cell Options

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:33 pm

I'm still searching for a fuel cell for my 510 project. One reasonable option is a racing fuel cell like a Fuel Safe or other brand. I would like to keep most of my trunk space so these would have to be mounted under the trunk floor. The stock fuel tank is a 10gal (way to small) and is mounted between the rear shock mounts. Good for front rear balance, but bad for roll being mounted so high. I've searched the 510 forums, but most people either use the stock tank or use their trunk space. I started looking into reaplacement EFI tanks for cars like the Camaro that might be large enough to hold 15+ gallons of fuel but slim enough to fit under the trunk. I'll get some measurements and pics and hopefully someone has a good option. Maybe I'm just trying too hard.

Old Colt · Post by **Old Colt** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:01 pm

It is common for cells to be 9" deep, With a flat floor in the trunk the cell may nestle up under it fine.
I cut through the floor in my Colt and set an ATL cell down in with 1" box tube frame around it.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:37 pm

Corvettes are built with the gas tank high up and between the rear wheels.

It seems like the engineers were more concerned with the dynamics of a tank in full condition and empty condition and where to place the tank in order to make the least amount of balance change in both conditions.

I guess they would preffer the higher CG then the wieght balance on the tires from front to rear.

The other consideration is also in rear end collisions ( in racing you aint supposed to get hit in the ass

) but its something to consider in road cars

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:58 pm

I've found a few race cells that should fit okay. The only other complaint would be running fuel lines to an inline pump. But beggers can't be choosers. I'll look at the Bronco and Blazer tanks next time I'm at the yard. I thought maybe the stock FWD Eclipse tank might work. Anyone have demensions on that?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:03 pm

if you cant find one jeff, measure it up where you want it and I will build you one, let me know

Old Colt · Post by **Old Colt** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:39 pm

I thought maybe the stock FWD Eclipse tank might work. Anyone have demensions on that?

Yup I have one, but we just got 3 feet of fresh white fluffy dumped on it. If you can not get the info in a few weeks remind me and I may be able to get to it.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:40 pm

Well, I finally got around to measuring the space I have and got a couple pics to share. The space is 31"x24"x7". Basically, I can cut out the spare tire well. There are frame rails on either side of the well and a brace right before the rear diff. As it sits the well is slightly lower than the rear body work. I could handle it sitting another 2" lower if it needed to. I've found a couple of fuel cells that measure 25x17x9 and are pretty cheap at about $125-$200. They all have a sump and run external fuel pumps. I haven't gotten around to looking at any more stock tanks since they rarely give good measurements and pics to reference.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:14 pm

This is basically a street car that will see as much drag racing and road racing as my budget and time will allow. Most of the cells I look at have sumps and foam to keep fuel starvation and sloshing to a minimum. Their typically listed under drag racing cells at Jeg's and Summit. I'd ask someone to fag up a custom piece, but I'm not sure the expense would justify it. If that's the best option and worth the extra cash, I'll definately do it.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:41 pm

hey Jeff, I can't find my dog , this looks alot like the last thing I saw off him, could you check it for me? he was a schnouser

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:23 pm

Sorry, that ain't his. That's some crap around a drain hole in the spare tire well. On second thought, it could be some dog poo that got flung up under the car.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:48 am

you want to place the tank in the safest strongest location you can, there is no stronger place in this design than between the rear wheels, it places the tank high so you can feed an external pump, and it places the CG closer to center to balance out the difference between empty and full tank. It also takes the fuel cell out of harms way in the event of rear end collision

The bends in this roll cage are placed in the right place for the street, see the small bends in the back of the roll bar? that is a crumple zone needed in case of a rear end collision, in racing they would be straight but in street driving you need to create that crumple zone to allow the car to absorb the energy of a impact instead of allowing the energy of impact to feed into the drivers cockpit, however, in this design the gas tank is directly in your crumple zone, if you got wacked hard from the rear you will have gas all over the place
I am not concerned with a gas fire in a 150mph collision, I am tallking about ' survivable' 20mph collisions when you have a fire and cant get the jammed doors open

I guess I should pay more attention to baffling but its just a matter of slowing down inertia, I placed my efforts on keeping fuel in the fuel pump by creating a pocket near the rear section of the fuel cell that would never get empty

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:09 pm

In my car I'm most worried about tapping a wall and tweaking the frame rails. It could squeeze the tank and cut it like a pair of scissors. I plan on going with a safer cell at some point.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:37 am

do it NOW! I have pics available from some of my early injuries

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:25 am

I might make up a smaller stainless steel cell. It'd be more appropriate for storing alcohol blends. Not sure if the foam in my Summit cell would agree with E85. It seems to work with E10. It'd be nice to track down a bladder first though.

This one 20 gallon aluminum cell might get reused as a refueling rig though.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:31 pm

Bill, you're probably right about the cell location in my 510. The area you're pointing to is the stock location for a fuel cell. If the rear area is so bad for placement, why do factory cars have them in that area? The only reason I don't want to put the fuel cell behind the seat is the size issue and placing it so high in the car. I haven't measured for how much fuel it will hold, but the stock tank only holds 10gal. Though it isn't configured to fit the space. Another reason I don't want to run a setup like that is because I don't want to run a surge tank and use 2 fuel pumps. We'll see what happens, I haven't cut anything up yet.

ps. that role cage is in Liz Miles' 510 and she deffinately knows that the bends need to be there.

http://www.milesspeed.com/

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:06 pm

all the modern factory cars I have seen mount the gas tank underneath the car, about where the back seat is, they definatly are all in front of the spare tire well and the rear suspension

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:44 pm

all the modern factory cars I have seen mount the gas tank underneath the car, about where the back seat is, they definatly are all in front of the spare tire well and the rear suspension

Check out the last generation Mustang. Even the 1G AWD DSM has the fuel tank behind the axle. I don't necesarrily agree with it, but it's been done.