Some nice 2.4L dyno numbers

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:12 pm

My tuner sent me this link and set it as my goal. The setup is very similar to what I am running but with a slightly larger turbo:

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=4252

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:26 pm

I bet they can get better results on EVO3 16G, if they are going to stick to just 14psi

.

The number are low, but that was done at very low boost. I am not sure why your tuner would use this as a benchmark for anything... Who tunes for 14psi? Vishnu?

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:58 pm

Its a good pump gas tune I should say.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:26 pm

DJpowerHaus wrote:Its a good pump gas tune I should say.

Sure, if you want to limit yourself to 87 octane

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:01 am

GRNDSM wrote:
DJpowerHaus wrote:Its a good pump gas tune I should say.
Sure, if you want to limit yourself to 87 octane

And what would you say is a good boost for 93 octane w/o spray.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:33 am

Robert Venable wrote:
GRNDSM wrote:
DJpowerHaus wrote:Its a good pump gas tune I should say.
Sure, if you want to limit yourself to 87 octane
And what would you say is a good boost for 93 octane w/o spray.

It depends on your tuning ability and tools, but 18-20psi is usually good enough for a daily driver (assiming proper fuel system) and if you want to set some good dyno numbers, I have seen people take it up to 25psi or so. But I wouldn't recommend for daily driving

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:38 am

With 18-20 psi on 93 octane, what is the calculated NA compression ratio(aka W/O boost) you are running with the kinda boost??

Personally, I'm don't like more than 15 psi for daily drivers, and when I build my 4G64/63 I am shooting for a 10 PSI daily driver. I only want about peak 300 hp, but I don't want to rev past 7500 rpm either.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:13 am

Well, I can't fault you for being conservative... Especially if this is your daily driver. But if you really want to be fast and competitive against other similar cars on pump gas, you need to push things a bit.

However, boost values are pretty meaningless without timing. You can run 30psi on pump has and 0 degree of timing advance, but it will not make as much power as, lets say, 22psi and 12 deg of timing advance. You really need good control over both of those critical values!

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:17 am

20 PSI on 93 octane with a 20g and cams on a stock motor 130k puts down 360 awhp with a safc adjustable regulator walbro 255 2g mass and a chipped eprom ecu air fuel is around 10:8 - 11:0 with no knock. this car has been @ 20 psi since before i bought the car. now it just has a 20g

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:29 am

i cant get over how much fuel you guys run, are you sure about that air fuel ratio? are you capturing the data?

Thanks

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:49 pm

On a 4G motor, no one runs 10psi unless you have high compression. My 1G I had was pretty stock and I still ran 16psi on the 14b. Granted this is at 5k ft of elevation, so I can get away with a little higher boost. But we only run 91 octane. I don't have any power #'s but I had zero knock and 18+ degrees of timing. The 1g pistons are 7.8:1 compression. Most aftermarket pistons run about 9:1. Alot of guys I know run 11.8:1 AFR and 20psi of boost on 91 octane. If you want to run 10psi, get a stock motor and throw a T25 on it. Hell, you could use an NA motor and run that with proper fuel and tuning. But boost pressure is nothing without compression, fuel, timing and air flow. Check out DSMTuners.com and see what some of those guys run. I got alot of info from there when I was starting out.

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:08 am

my buddies civic has 450cc, 13 p.s.i, i dont know the timing. he has a big t3. a/f is 12.1 to 11.7, at 60% duty cycle. revs to 8100. he cant find traction in 2nd gear, and he drives it 120 miles a day.

i have a stupid question, how do you tune timing without reading plugs.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:21 am

nobody can REALLY read plugs except a handful of real experts. It was a trade known in the days of carburation and low voltage ignition systems.

when you hear of a spark plug ' breaking down' it means that the spark ( under compression)is no longer firing out of the tip of the electrode, its firing down in the well of the spark plug ( crossing the insulater down inside the plug) that is where you ' read' the plug, back inside the insulater

A good plug has sharp edges on the electrode, rounded edges make it easier to break down. The spark will arc from the center post to the side of the grounding electrode instead of to the upper center

You have to remember , electricity always flows to the weakest insulated spot, lean , compressed air, in the combustion chamber offers lots of insulation, thats why the engineers built high energy ingition

Its just another complicated moment senior citizens have
Bill

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:38 am

From what I have gathered the proper way to tune ignition is to first setup a semi decent A/F map on a conservative ignition map. The next step is to tune on a dyno that can read steady-state torque. Then you tune the ignition to get the highest torque at each load site by increasing timing until the torque starts to drop and then backing it off a little for safety. Then you go for a finer tune of the A/F and then tune ignition again to get that closer.

I'm no tuner though. That's just what I've read on the Internet.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:07 am

A/F numbers are dependant on so much stuff, guys are saying 11:1 or talking about 10:1 but we are talking on such a broad scale. Colorado is at 5000ft above sea level and Florida is at 500 feet above sea level, the methonal fuels, the ethonal fuels are all locally blended. The more you lean towards and Acohol mix the higher the A/F number. If you notice everybody is talking duty cylce mixed in 60% or 80% ( hell one guy was saying 105% ) all out of a 100% system! max duty cycle is 90% period!

The bottom line is, you have to combust the fuel, the provided spark has to be in harmony with the A/F ratio, what ever it is

the leaner the A/F number the harder it is for the spark to travel the air gap of the spark plug, because air insulates and fuel conducts

the denser the fuel ( richer ) the less you need high energy ignition

Ignition timing is more related to how long the piston duration stays in the TDC position. not the energy provided by the ignition.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:04 pm

I leave most of the complex tuning to the engineers. I've only messed with S-AFC and things like that. It's another reason I love the DSM. There is so much aftermarket support for things like the ECU. We have a guy locally that burns chips. I leave all that to them. I'll just stick to my fuel tuning for now. I'm sure I'll get to that point some day.

Maybe.