Motor positioning?

blue_crush · Post by **blue_crush** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:15 pm

I pulled my motor and tranny back out, to tie up some loose ends and i noticed before i pulled it out and after i put it back in, that it seated itself at an ocward angle. or for a better example the cam gears are gunna hit the hood! that shouldnt be like that.

On another note, the TH-400 tranny that im using is so close to fitting all the way up in the tranny tunnel, but im gunna have to cut alot of it out. now i know your thinking that if the tranny isnt all the way up then the motor isnt going to sit properly. The angle the motor is sitting compared to how far up the tranny needs to go isnt comparable.

Im almost wondering if im using the wrong rubber mounts or something.
I went back to the home page and looked at clearance issues that DJ had with the white car, and my Hot side or exaughst side of the turbo is about 6in. away from the frame.
Basicly im thinkin somthin aint wright.

It should sit nice and straight with the car right?

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:07 pm

We did have to cut part of the skeleton out of the hood on the white car to get the upper timing belt cover to not hit the hood. That was an 83 hood. The racecar is close too. Not even sure if it'll clear with a timing cover on it. It scares me to use it and it scares me to not use it.

But anyways, with my engine moved forward 2" on the white car it was close enough to the hood that we had to cut out some of the skelton.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:24 pm

Where do you guys like to mount the engine for drifting? further back? or forward? where do you place the balance of wieght for your best drift?

Do you place a lot of emphasis on panhard bar in the rear? do you stay away from body roll in the rear?

M-GOBLUE!

blue_crush · Post by **blue_crush** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:23 pm

the tranny is all the way in and bolted on, but in order for it to reach its final point of alignment with the rearend i will have to cut out alot of the tunnel. DJ does your motor sit level with the car or atleast close to it? even though it barely hits the hood?
I am thinking about removing the rubber section of the mount and welding the plates together (eliminating the rubber altogether) and repositioning the angle of the mount. That will drop the motor down far enough to not cut the hell out of the tunnel. But may cause issues with the steering.
If i could just get like an inch or so down on the motor i would be good.

good idea or bad?????

also, I dont believe this... but somebody told me that if i cut the tunnel out to far that the chasis will not be true any longer.
Plans of getting a cage will happen just not now.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:08 pm

I'm not really sure if my motor sits level in either car. There is just so many angles and optical illusions to make that call. I guess I could measure off of the oil pan flange though and calculate off of that. That still wont tell me too much though since the front is considerably lower than the rear. I'm sure its just a mess as far as driveline angles.

If you were planning on having solid mounts anyways I'd go for it. Easier to find another set of mounts than to rebuild a transmission tunnel. Dont be affraid to bang in the oil pan a little either. If you cut any parts out of a unibody car then you're technically weakening it so try other things before you start cutting the chassis up.

Bill, I prefer to have the weight as close to the center of the car as I can. I consder the center to be the shifter. This means get rid of as much as I can in front of the axel and as much behind the rear axel.

All this is really just nit picking. Drifting is just about driving the car a certain way, not so much about all the other details. For example.. Matt can drift a 240SX, F150, Festiva.. doesnt really make a difference.

I know the guys with solid rear axels fiddle with their panhards, but us IRS guys dont really have to worry about that stuff. I've always liked a softer rear compared to the front. Matt might say otherwise.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:57 am

The floors in import cars is made of HSLA steel
HSLA steel (high strength low alloy steel) is a type of steel alloy that provides many benefits over regular steel alloys. In general, HSLA alloys are much stronger and tougher than ordinary plain carbon steels. They are used in cars, trucks, cranes, bridges and other structures that are designed to handle a lot of stress, often at very low temperatures.

Mitchel manuals offers a book to tell you exactly what panels are made of this steel in your car so you dont heat it, the floor is where maximum strength is placed to absorb an accident, crush zones are built into the HSLA to direct impact into the cowl of the car so your feet dont get crushed.
Max srength is in the ' backbone' of the frame, which is the tunnel.

I want to build a project ' budget drifter' and I was wondering about engine placement, I don't know why but I had assumed a rear straight axle was used in your cars.
I know DJ wrote about changing his steering ( somewhere in here) but I don't know if that was for steering or for clearance

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:24 pm

I changed the steering for better feel, less balljoints, more angle, faster rate, less weight, an d powersteering that wont blow out in a day.

If you want a budget drift car get a 240SX. Dont do a single modification. That's good enough. Nothing needs to be modified. Learn on that like Matt did. If you want to make an easy car easier to drift just put some coilovers and an aftermarket LSD and you're great. No need for any engine modifications. If you do NEED to modify it... just turbo the 2.4L and that'll be plenty.

If you learn on the perfect car you dont learn much.. the car does all the hard work and when you get into a car that isnt perfect you suck. The key is seat time so stop wasting time trying to build a drift car and just get out there and start practicing.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:49 pm

I am too old to enjoy drifting ,true story, I just build things
Winter gets me in the mood to build, I got 4 acres of grass here so its tough in the summer to get any ' fun time' in.
Never even got to the drags this year, sold my buisness and trying to retire, so I can have some fun, but that aint in the cards yet.
I tried to check out the SCCA IT road race setup, Matt talked about ,but I havent found what I am looking for in that yet.
I have an old datsun ' fairlady' thats too rough to restore so I think I am gonna use that.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:06 pm

past the roof line... damn.

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:18 am

man i guess i got really lucky. my car came with an auto tranny originally so the tranny tunnel was hige and my th-350 fits in there like a glove. i used both motor mounts out of an 88 MM pickup and my motor fits perfect under the stock hood. are you guys using different MM?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:26 am

Don't you guys do any sheet metal work? Like building removable trans tunnels and hood scoops?
Its calms the soul to spend time on an English wheel just wheeling stuff out

hey Smog, send me a pattern and I will knock out an oil pan for you

blue_crush · Post by **blue_crush** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:39 pm

nope, i remember asking you what mounts i should get, so i got the mm. if you read up farther, the mm is a half inch taller than the conquest. I guess its gunna be a hit or miss deal. I will keep trying and keep you guys posted.
Because i would rather not hack the tunnel.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:27 pm

I was looking for this pictures I saw with a car with 4 stacked superchargers. I couldnt find it anywhere so I had to settle for 2 of them.

rarson · Post by **rarson** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:21 am

Matt, maybe you can chime in since I have no experience with drifting...

But it seems to me that there is a dichotomy between the FC3S RX-7 and the S13 240SX. Whereas the S13 is a good drift machine with it's weight further towards it's ends, the FC3S seems to be a better grip machine, with it's weight concentrated towards the center.

While the rotary engine is pretty heavy for it's size, it's almost completely behind the front wheels in the FC. The FC has a lower polar moment than the S13, which as stated before has it's weight spread out a bit more. This seems to make the FC much harder to drift, and the S13 much easier.

I would guess putting the motor forward a bit (not making an effort to move it forward, but definitely not shoving it back as far as possible) would help make the car more drift-friendly.

The FC seems to kind of snap oversteer in drift situations.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:11 am

Ranmister, ranner, ran man,

Keep it simple >;o) we can do more with steering control under drift with throttle and roll axis. Just raise your rear R/C and use a solid rear axle with an ajustable panhard bar. you can also move the R/C from side to side with the length of the panhard bar, for a given track.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:01 pm

Most drifting series dont allow you to change the type of suspension. That means you cant put a solid rear axel in a car that had McPhearson rear suspension like a Starion. This also means that a Starion cant put 240SX multilink or double wishbone suspension in the back. Luckily the 240SX and the Starion both have McPhearson struts up front. Its a little gray when the rules say "OEM uprights"... its OEM.. but its from a Nissan

You could do an upgraded rear axel in a D50 though. They dont allow trucks in some drift series though.

If you're just going for fun and practice you can usually drive anything that's safe enough to take onto the track. One time there was one of these:

at a DG Trials event. (He ended up having WAY too much power and not nearly enough control to slide it on asphalt, but it was fun to watch)

For some reason Rarson's 240SX vs. RX7 post annoys the hell out of me. An RX7 is a better drift car if its set up to be a better drift car and driven appropriatly. A 240 is a better grip car if its set up to be and driven to be. And FYI, a Camero with Z06 wheels will beat a Z06 with Camero wheels around a race track too. You might not see as many Rotaries at drift events because there just arent as many around and they're not as easy to modify unless know what you're doing.

So why bother moving the engine back? Might make things 1% faster.. but for the most part you do it to show off what you can do.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:05 pm

RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!! weeeeee don't neeeeeed no stinking rooooles

I never join a group that would have ME as a member! lets break some rules...and start our own danm drift club, maybe call it the GUY SHOW.....with nooooooooo stinking rules

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:11 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:

RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!! weeeeee don't neeeeeed no stinking rooooles

I never join a group that would have ME as a member! lets break some rules...and start our own danm drift club, maybe call it the GUY SHOW.....with nooooooooo stinking rules

sounds like a sausage fest