Oil pan modifications... any suggestions?

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:59 am

Hello,

So, what I want to do is remove a portion of the oil pan and weld in a piece of stainless steel that is shaped differently. The point would be to allow more oil pan clearance around the stearing rack and be able to get the engine a little lower (to get those cam pulleys to clear the hood and for obvious weight/handling benefit) and further back by about 2 inches. The stearing rack sits in the area where the bottom of the oil pan begins to slope downwards into the main sump area.

So I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion about the metal thickness and type. I assumed stainless so I wouldn't have to worry about painting. I have a lincoln 135 mig welder...

Also, what about mounting the turbo's oil return line as high up as possible above the main sump area? The oil would have a hard time getting to the front of the engine under acceleration in the stock location.

Thanks

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:55 am

The steel that the oil pans are built with is called 'AK' or ' deep drawn' steel..............its mild and has the ability to stretch to desired shape......I have complete sheel metal shop services and welding service

I guess an ' AN' fitting in the pan and turbo return line, would allow you to put the return line on the turbo anywhere you want using a flexable hose with fittings to connect the two..........

if you can send me a pic of where you wanna locate the sump and I will knock one out for you and we can exchange pans..........pm me I want to help you get this thing going!

Bill

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:51 am

I mounted my oil return line above the baffling on the oil pan as to prevent any oil held in the sump from fighting oil trying to get away from the turbo.

Matt and I tried to modify a RWD 4G64 oil pan. We didnt have the proper tools and it still sits in the shed hacked to pieces. Are you sure cutting is really the way to go. I chose (out of necessity) to bang my oil pan in where I needed the extra room. I dont regret it for a second: no pin hole leaks, no slag in the pan to worry about.

I got worried the other day about it though when I had some rubbing in the pan... I just KNEW it had to be becuase I banged it in. When I pulled the pan I found out I had plenty of room where I banged it in. It was actually rubbing on the untrouched side. EVERYONE DOING A 2.4L CRANK WITH A 2.0L OIL PAN, CHECK FOR RUBBING ON CYLINDER 4!

If someone could draw me up some CAD drawings for the oil pan flange, i could probably have a few cut for only the cost of materials, might even be able to have a grove machined in them for an o-ring. That alone should be worth it. I spent 3 hours the other night cleaning gaskets off of my oil pan and block.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:57 am

I ended up banging my first oil pan to the point where the top/mount surface isn't even flat any more... maybe I should use heat in the area that I'm working with.

I will see what I come up with tonight. I already ordered a used oil pan from ebay, but maybe I can get some testing done with the bent up one.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:00 pm

Did you do it with it bolted to the block?

I would like a more professional F1 approach to my oil pans, but sometimes it just has to be done fast the wrong way.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:08 pm

At first I was, but then I removed it and was doing it on the garage floor. This is definitely what caused it to become deformed in the wrong places.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:34 am

Eric,

I got the pics of the frame/oil pan and see what you need......but you said you wanted to move the engine back 2 more inches.........IF......I take out 2" total from the existing starting point,,,, will that be enough?

I want to add wider sides to the pan in the very front.........to add about 1 or 1 1/2 quarts of oil
How far can I go out before it gets in the way?

Thanks
Bill

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:05 pm

If you can get 2 inches off from the starting point that would be great. Also, if you can bring it up a bit in that area (hopefully without hurting the oil flow--of course, it will help having the turbo return line where I want it).

As far as adding extra capacity there's plenty of room on either side and the front.

Thanks a lot Bill!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:40 pm

I wanna see pictures!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:11 pm

of the oil pan? or the gurl friend? if I were you..........I would go with the oil pan

skizzo · Post by **skizzo** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:38 pm

I wouldn't suggest stainless to go along with MS, especially since you're using a MIG and probably don't have a lot of experience welding SS.

Also, you can call up Buschur racing, and they'll sell you oil pan flanges. I bought two of them from Dave when I made my own.

And, it's cake to make your own oil pan.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:21 pm

Wow! That's sweet!

How much do they sell that flange for?

skizzo · Post by **skizzo** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:49 pm

I don't remember, but they seemed reasonable, for not measuring up my own pan and dicking with getting it cut. I think it was like $30-40. I was already down there for a few other things and picked it up.

Dave also has a lot of other stuff for RWD conversions, in stock. When I was there, he had motor plates, flywheels, flanges and a bunch of other RWD specific parts. I was actually very surprised that he had so much stuff in stock, ready to go out.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:30 pm

As promised Eric

this is as close as I can get before you have to modify the oil pick up tube

youn see how close it is to the pick up screen and some original baffling

This is how the new piece will fit

this is as low as it will go ( about an 1 1/2 inch at the back and 1 3/4 inch at the front ) before any interference in the engine, you can notice about a 5 degree drop towards the front of the engine
I saw the other oil pan site, guy did a really nice job, its just about what I had in mind.....if you would preffer to buy his I would understand that..how much are they?

Bill

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:08 pm

Bill, that's looking great! No, I don't plan to buy a different oil pan... as much as I'd like to build something myself it would take me forever and I probably wouldn't finish.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:15 pm

Hi eric, i will rpobably send this out tomorow

bill

blue_crush · Post by **blue_crush** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:17 pm

nice, especialy the Zero G.

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:38 pm

Bill, that's unbelievable, I'm amazed!!!

How did you weld that?

Freakin' sweet!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:16 am

Hi Matt,

Its hard to see in the pic's but the back inner wall of the sump has a 1 " extension behind it with a curle so that oil can't push up behind the pump and into the back of the pan on acceleration. I could have done more on baffling into the sides but they have pockets the oil rides in and make it difficult to ride up that wall. I gotta see if it fits first, I am afraid to paint it because eric may have to make some changes once he gets it

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:44 am

Never know, I may have to make some adjustments. Besides, I'm looking forward to painting it anyways.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:59 pm

Looks great. Be sure to pressure test it!

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:02 pm

skizzo wrote:I wouldn't suggest stainless to go along with MS, especially since you're using a MIG and probably don't have a lot of experience welding SS.

Also, you can call up Buschur racing, and they'll sell you oil pan flanges. I bought two of them from Dave when I made my own.

And, it's cake to make your own oil pan.

I just talked to Buschur, they do not have any oil pan flanges. Does anyone have any other sources for those?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:43 pm

I gotta make a couple anyway, how do you want it? aluminuim or steel?

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:35 pm

If someone draws it up, I could have them laser cut by the dozen.

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:12 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:

I gotta make a couple anyway, how do you want it? aluminuim or steel?

i owuld suggest steel as aluminum would heat cycle differently.........

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:01 am

Thank guys, but I decided to to completely butcher Buschur's oil pan

. I am going to put oil sump in the middle of the engine, requiring me to fabricate a new oil pick up (original plan was to keep the original oil pick-up).

I started reading about oil-pan design and everything suggests that the middle of the engine a better place for an oil sump anyway.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:36 pm

Guys, in research on oil pan design, I found this interesting article with lot of basic information:

http://www.automedia.com/Aftermarket/Oi ... 020101op/1

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:29 am

More progress on the oil-pan front!

First, I have designed a new oil pick-up (using bends from spare oil tubes).

Then, I am enclosing the oil pan around the oil pick up:

Next step: sump portion of the oil pan. I am looking at ~5.5 quarts total capacity (~1 quart more than OEM pan).

Edit: Sump portion:

The orignal pan was made from .035" carbon steel. That is what what I used to fill in the front of the pan (rusty area). But the sump is made from .065" SST, because it wanted that area to be stronger and more resistant to being punctured.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:14 am

Final results after powercoating

kuroi · Post by **kuroi** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:19 am

sorry to bring this back from the dead but, GRNDSM how did that pan work out, any issues with the longer pickup? I'm looking to do a custom pan for my swap and I like your design.

Thanks,
Rob

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:59 am

My project has been on a vacation for the last few weeks (house work

). I do not anticipate any problems because of long pick up. There are plenty of OEM applications that have long pick up. The problem might arise if you make it deeper, but generally not from making it longer.

In ether case, I will make sure that my oil pump is well packed with grease (as you always should, anyway).

My pan did warp a bit after welding

, when I put it on the block both front and back have ~1/16 gap. But I have been able to tighten the bolts to close that gap. I am going to keep my fingers crossed that it does leak... I think that using a paper style gasket along with ample amount of RTV should do the job.

kuroi · Post by **kuroi** » Fri May 11, 2007 3:12 pm

Hmmm... well good luck, and you should try a product called "the right stuff" I find it works alot better than rtv it's only drawback is you can't use it with fuel related parts.

Thanks,
Rob

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:59 pm

I second "the right stuff" It seals very well.

oorx7 · Post by **oorx7** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:03 pm

I have cad software and a oil pan. Mike do you still want to get some of those flanges made? I could draw up the flange fairly quick.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:32 pm

You may want to work with Bill on this. He's exploring dry sump pans at the moment for us and might benefit from it. I'm not too interested in having flanges cut at the moment. I just don't think we'd be able to get the price low enough with the numbers we'd need.

oorx7 · Post by **oorx7** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:18 pm

I would be glad to help out were I can . I can do cad/cam. I also have access to a couple of CNC's.