4g63 cam gears vs. 4g64

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:32 pm

i just got my 4g64 cam gears and i went to put them on the motor. but i cant find any difference between the timing marks on the 4g63 and the 4g64 cam gears. can some one fill me in on whats going on.

4g63mightymax · Post by **4g63mightymax** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:56 pm

I havent actually compared them myself, but I was under the impression that a 4g64 had a slightly taller block height (because of a longer stroke), and therefore, slightly different size cam gears.
I assume you have held them up against each other to compare size/ # of teeth?
-Jeremy

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:56 pm

the # of teeth should be the same, the cams turn half as fast as the crank. i was under the impression that the deck height is taller, and that will make the cam timing marks off. i need to get out some books about cam timeing and deck height.

no i did not hold them up to make sure they are the same size, but as far as i know they cant be smaller or bigger, because of the crank timeing gear.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:25 pm

I knew this was going to come up sooner or later, so last night I took some pictures of my cam gears. You can see how I remarked them half a tooth.

Granted this car has yet to start... but I have seen it done like this before. Anyone who's purchased REAL 4G64 gears, I'd love to compare them.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:34 pm

After my experience at trying to use 2.0L gears on a 2.4L block, I wouldn't make another attempt. Mine ran a good day like that and as soon as I took it on a drive and upshifted into 4th, the belt jumped time (still had good tension). It's not worth the risk of ruining a nice set of pistons and valves in order not to spend $100 or whatever on the correct parts.

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:00 am

i got my cam gears for a 94 galant dohc 2.4 form the dealer, they look the same as yours. after i got the parts i checked the part # with what i could find online and they were the same. i bought the cam gears cause i thought i had to use the 2.4 because of the timing marks. the one thing that was different was it looks like there is different back spaceing. i dont know what to do, and im tired of messing with it. i hope somebody can shed some light on the subject

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:19 pm

But skipping timing has nothing to do with the timing marks. If you want me to measure back spacing, just ask, I'll see what I can measure for you.

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:34 pm

i dont need anything messured, thank you for offering. i need to know what needs to be done so i can put my motor in my car, i bought the 4g64 camgears so i would not have to mess with retiming the cams,( just use the stock marks.) i just want to get the car running.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:43 am

Anything holding you up that I could shed some light on?

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:48 pm

i was going to use the stock gears untill i saw that guy messed up his head. so i asked around and i was told to use the 4g64 cam gears, because of the timeing marks. if i have to remark the 4g64 cam gears, then why buy them and why cant i use the 4g63 cam gears, they look the same, im going to check the backspaceing and see where it lines everything up.

im being extra carefull with my new head. i think i might be to carefull. i just want to make sure that it will run and the belt wont jump for some reason.

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:29 pm

sorry for makeing all you guys scratch your heads. i was to stressed the day i looked at my cam gears. my dad looked at it and he said there was about a half tooth diference between the cam gears. now im going to put it all together and i have until the 3rd,(i think) untill the next race.

thanks for your help.

FG64TOGO · Post by **FG64TOGO** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:49 pm

SO NOW THAT YOU GOT IT FIGURED OUT, GO OUT TO YOUR DADS AND PUT THE DOGGONE THING TOGETHER!!!!!

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:20 am

there is a race this saterday, but it might get rained out. i would like to see it run by the end of the month,(like i havent said that before) i just have to put the motor in and run some wires, that sounds easy.

FG64TOGO · Post by **FG64TOGO** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:03 pm

EXCUSES, EXCUSES. ITS NOT GOING TO RAIN.
QUIT WASTING THAT GO JUICE, HOP IN YOUR LITTLE BLUE BOMB, STEP ON THE SKINNY PEDDLE ON THE RIGHT, GO TO YOUR DADS, PUT ALL THE LITTLE BOLTS IN THE LITTLE HOLES, AND TIGHTEN EM. LET US KNOW HOW IT WENT.
BY THE WAY, YOUR DAD SEEMS PRETTY SHARP.

FG64TOGO · Post by **FG64TOGO** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:28 pm

I TRIED TO POST PICS, BUT ITS NOT EZ 4 ME.

ACTUALLY, ITS NOT QUITE 1/2 TOOTH.

U R RIGHT. GET THE ADJ GEARS AND DEGREE THE CAMS.
FOR OPTIMUM TUNING, DYNO OR TIME TEST RUN.

ADJ. GEARS $230-$360
STOCK $55+$10 SHIP TO MY DOOR.

THE BACK SPACING DIFF IS VERY LITTLE. ABOUT .050
I THINK. (2.0-2.4 GEARS)

EVEN WITH STOCK 2.4 GEARS I WANT TO DEGREE THE CAM.
CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME THE VALVE OPEN/CLOSE DEGREES?
LETS SEE, WOULD I USE THE 2.0 DOHC SPECS OR THE 2.4 DOHC SPECS? USING THE 2.0 CAMS.

USING THE 2.0 DOHC ON THE 2.4 BLOCK, I CHECKED THE VALVE CLEARANCE. TO BE SAFE, I JUST SLIGHLY NOTCHED THE PISTON ON THE INTAKE SIDE.

THANKS FOR ANY INFO

FG64TOGO · Post by **FG64TOGO** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:39 pm

OR........HAS ANYONE DYNOED THEIR MOTOR AND FOUND THE OPTIMUM CAM TIMING. I AM LOOKING FOR THE BEST PERF IN THE
4500-7500 RPM RANGE.

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:43 pm

this motor is all stock n/a, it has 11.25 cr. and a mild port, and everything else is stock. i race in a stock class, it will look bone stock, but it will have huge power compared to every one else

FG64TOGO · Post by **FG64TOGO** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:20 pm

CARGUY-
YOU ARE PROBLY WANTING TO KNOW THE SAME THING THAT I DO.
2.4 BLOCK, 2.0 HEAD, 2.0 CAMS, 2.4 GEARS.
WILL THIS COMBINATION GIVE ACCEPTABLE CAM TIMING?
SURE WITH ADJ GEARS THE POWER CURVES CAN BE MOVED UP OR DOWN THE RPM RANGE.

BUT STILL, EVEN ALL STOCK, I NEED TO CHECK TO SEE IF THE CAM TIMING IS CLOSE TO STOCK SPECS.

GIVEN THE DECK HEIGHT IS 6MM TALLER
GIVEN THE 2.4 BELT IS LONGER
GIVEN THE TIMING MARK DIFF BETWEEN THE 2.0 AND 2.4
GEARS ARE ABOUT 4MM DIFF

DOES THIS ALL EQUAL CORRECT, OR CLOSE, CAM TIMING?

ARE THE 2.0/2.4 VALVE OPENING SPECS THE SAME?
IF THEY ARE DIFF, WHICH SPECS DO I USE?

IF THE CAM TIMING WITH THE STOCK GEARS ARE NOT CLOSE TO STOCK, I WILL HAVE TO USE THE ADJ GEARS.

MAYBE IS JUST ANSWERED MY OWN QUESTION.

BUT, I STILL NEED THE 2.0/2.4 VALVE OPEN/CLOSE SPECS.

HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THAT WHEN YOU CHANGE THE CAM TIMING,IT CHANGES THE IGNITION TIMING?

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:13 pm

you have great questions, one question i have, or had was piston to valve clerance with the stock lower end. i would like the open/close specs, but i have not looked on the web for them. and yes i have thought about the ignition timing, but that is all tuning, im worried about bending and breaking things

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:19 pm

You can only get the cam timing so close with the OEM gears (which are the same part except for the timing mark). Where the teeth lay on the timing belt has lots to do with it. Fight it all you want, you'll only get it so close with OEM gears (4G63 or 4G64).

Adjustable timing gears will allow you to really get it right though. If you are going as far as looking for that extra 1% of power by degreeing the cams, you probably dont need stock cam specs, right?

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:19 pm

sounds good to me, and i think that goes with any motors with after market cam gears. the only thing adjustible cam gears do is change your power band.

FG64TOGO · Post by **FG64TOGO** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:58 pm

U R RIGHT,BUT....THE IDEA OF DEGREEING THE CAMS WITH OEM GEARS IS TO SEE WHERE IT ACTUALLY IS. SLOPPLY OEM SPECS, TOLERANCES, MACHINING, ETC, IT COULD BE RIGHT ON, ADV, RETARDED.
I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH RIGHT ON OEM. BUT , IF IT WAS 3,4 DEGREES RETARDED, ONE TOOTH ADV ON THE BELT AND IT WOULD BE ABOUT 3,4 DEGREES ADV. OR VISE VERSA.
I'M THINKING ONE TOOTH =7*
I'M THINKING THE ADJ GEARS ALLOW U TO CHANGE THE VALVE TIMING IN 1* INCREMENTS. 0*TO 6*.
FOR 7*, JUMP ONE TOOTH ON THE GEAR.
FOR SAY 9*. ONE TOOTH ON GEAR PLUS 2* ON ADJ GEAR.
WOW. BLAH BLAH BLAH. I HAVE NOW OFFICIALLY BEAT THIS TO DEATH!

WOULD U AGREE THAT IF IT WAS UP TO 3* ADV OR RETARDED,
AT 4500 TO 7500 RPM, IT WOULDNT MAKE BUT MAYBE 1% DIFF.? HHHMMMM. THATS WHAT YOU ALREADY SAID.

I SEEM TO BE GETTING BETTER AT ANSWERING MY OWN ????s

I JUST THOUGHT OF SOME MORE BEATING.

WOULD ADVING THE INTAKE ONE TOOTH (ABOUT 7*) INCREASE LOW END POWER AND REDUCE THE UPPER END?

WOULD RETARDING THE INTAKE ONE TOOTH REDUCE LOW END
AND INCREASE UPPER END?

OR ARE THESE TOO SEVERE OF ADJUSTMENTS?

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:21 pm

i did that with my escort, jumped one tooth on the intake(i would have to get the books out to find out which way, i dont remeber). it is all stock, besides the nos. everything below 4000 was gone, but it pulled harder all the way to 7000. it was about .04 gs. on the gtec. the timing jump was almost 8 degrees. one down fall is the car camed at idle. i did not like it in my daliy driver. i suggest that if you want to mess with cam timing, buy cam gears, so you can fine tune. unless you want your car to be a dyno queen.

when i get my race car runing i was going to try this to tune my power band for the track i race on.