changing the cooling system to front exit

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:45 pm

you expect me to believe you got friends?

I found one, I will be doing a write up this week

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:55 pm

Here is what I am going to use just figured I would give people more ideas

http://www.wilsonmanifolds.com/shop/ind ... tail&p=100

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:20 pm

I found a cheaper alternative check out his site he's a great guy after a couple of emails we decided to go with a custom built unit to accomidate -16AN in and out. Mark's prices are also cheaper than Wilson Manifold's and no need to purchase each side indavidually, his units are priced as a whole.
Call Mark and tell him I sent you (303-252-4481)

http://www.ipsco.org/Pantera%20Parts/re ... ousing.htm

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:12 pm

this is a second gen head cut up to examine the cooling system

you can see the coolant doesnt come up much more than an 1 1/2 inch in the head

this is the front coolant exit we will be using, if youlook closly you can just make out the coolant outlets in the head that control the original flow to the rear ut let, one of those get closed

you can see a little bit of a restriction in the outlet but not enough to cause great harm

now this is the existing OEM rear coolant exit, you can see the EGR passage located near the coolant passage we want to use,the coolant passage is there, you just cant see it until you cut away the head

now you can see the original rear outlet with the EGr passage and the existing coolant hole in the cylinder head, there is no reason to drill the cylinder head, the hole we require is existing, the only thing you need todo is open th ehead gasket to allow coolant topass through the coolant passage

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:11 am

bump for the blind one >;o)

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:18 am

Post by **AustinTSI** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:20 pm

Check out the item at the bottom of this page. It is a 1 1/4" Hose to 1 1/4" Hose with Closeable 1 1/4" bypass port custom thermo valve like what Bill mentions.

http://www.ipsco.org/Custom%20Services/ ... custom.htm

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:19 pm

take a look at an MR 2 with a 4AG engine and you will find a cheap alternative

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:25 am

Hi planning to buy the thermostat moving kit to the front from jay racing.
Does anybody know if they fixed the clearence issue you talked about on thos kits now??

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:29 am

just bought the jay-kit and it dosnt the pulleys, not even close...

cruuz · Post by **cruuz** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:38 am

hawk wrote:just bought the jay-kit and it dosnt the pulleys, not even close...

So you're saying that they revised the design and it clears the pulleys, right? Are you using all dsm components, or do you have a different w/p or pulley? I ask because I have a 1g dsm set up currently in the works, and will buy the kit if it'll work for me

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:54 am

hi
no it dosnt clear the pulleys...
im using stock dsm pulleys ( galant dohc)
The outgoing pipe is way to short to clear the pulleys

TronCarterIII · Post by **TronCarterIII** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:00 pm

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:14 pm

Bump;)
So bottomline: the hole is already there under the egr passage?
Just make hole in the gasket
But u still need to restrict the front two holes??

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:45 pm

restrict is not the proper word, you aare trying to control flow, so you dont want the front holes to push the coolant towards the back of the head, but you dont want to trap air in the front of the cylinder so you allow the front holes to bleed up throught the front while uncovering the holes in the back of the head to push the coolant forward

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:28 am

ok i see
Just looked at my head and i could only see one hole there in the back..
So u need to drill the second?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:00 am

this is the back part of the head, you can just make out the hole under the EGR port in the head, its there, you dont need to drill it, just open the head gasket where it lines up to the hole

see it?

you really dont have to do any head work, it will work without the detials, I just wanted to know how it was supposed to work so I cut it all up and followed the flow

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:45 pm

yea i see it but the there is no second hole on my head
look at pic
4g63hole

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed May 02, 2012 8:52 pm

hawk wrote:yea i see it but the there is no second hole on my head
look at pic
4g63hole

That's how my 1G head looked. I drilled that little hole bigger and then added a 2nd one. Be sure to make a template off of the block first so you get it right where it needs to be.

hawk · Post by **hawk** » Thu May 03, 2012 3:15 pm

Thnks for that input DJpowerHaus
Made my day:)
But you have the two holes in front restricted?

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Fri May 11, 2012 1:57 pm

I´m still like a big Questionmark about this really. colud be alittle because i dont understand english perfectly though.

I get that i need to make a new rearside hole next to the existing one.
But the front.. block them off, or not ?
I have heard both ways function well.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 11, 2012 7:31 pm

KHRacing wrote:I´m still like a big Questionmark about this really. colud be alittle because i dont understand english perfectly though.

I get that i need to make a new rearside hole next to the existing one.
But the front.. block them off, or not ?
I have heard both ways function well.

the original two holes at the back of the block ( near the original thermostate) are closed by using a blocked headgasket from the factory

the coolant at the top of # 1 cylinder will flow around the entire cylinder bore before it exits out the top of the block and into the cylinder head, then flow out the front of the head

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Sun May 13, 2012 12:18 pm

Bill Hincher wrote: the original two holes at the back of the block ( near the original thermostate) are closed by using a blocked headgasket from the factory

the coolant at the top of # 1 cylinder will flow around the entire cylinder bore before it exits out the top of the block and into the cylinder head, then flow out the front of the head

Dear Bill. Thanxss for the answer.. but this was wrong ?

My head has 2 holes by cylinder no: 1 and 1 hole at the back.

Did i not have to drill a new hole next to the single one at the rear & "close of the front ones... but still be able to let the front ones "bleed" a little ?

Sorry if im confused

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Sun May 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Here is a picture of my head: back end up

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun May 13, 2012 6:01 pm

I stand corrected, check and mate >;o)

yes one hole did exist and yes one hole needs to be drilled

GST18 · Post by **GST18** » Thu May 24, 2012 5:38 am

I run a unmodified block and head(1g on both). I run a -12an line in where the water pump would be with a -12an exiting out the front of the head. I have another -6an line coming out the back of the head. I run two different temp senors in the back of the cylinder head. The car runs great, I havent seen hot temps at all and I drive this car more than enough. With no thermostat/Single fan on all the time, on a 70* day I cruise about 140* coolant temps. At the end of 1/4mile pass, The temp will be right at 180*, that is after the burnout box and the car sitting on the transbrake on the line.

-Kevin-

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu May 24, 2012 9:40 pm

do you have a standard cylinder head temp you like to achieve before you make a pass Kevin?
in other words how much cylinder temp do you like to build in @ your fuel ratio before you make a pass?

GST18 · Post by **GST18** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:47 am

Bill Hincher wrote:do you have a standard cylinder head temp you like to achieve before you make a pass Kevin?
in other words how much cylinder temp do you like to build in @ your fuel ratio before you make a pass?

I dont ..... I usually let the car idle for a while in the pits to make sure oil is circulating nicely. As long as the temps dont get over 206* on the factory 2g temp sensor, I dont care really. I only care about 206* cause I run a 2g ecu with dsmlink and thats where the comp starts pulling timing.

Im more worried about oil pressure than I am water temp.

-Kevin-

JDOliver · Post by **JDOliver** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:19 am

GST18 wrote:I run a unmodified block and head(1g on both). I run a -12an line in where the water pump would be with a -12an exiting out the front of the head. I have another -6an line coming out the back of the head. I run two different temp senors in the back of the cylinder head. The car runs great, I havent seen hot temps at all and I drive this car more than enough. With no thermostat/Single fan on all the time, on a 70* day I cruise about 140* coolant temps. At the end of 1/4mile pass, The temp will be right at 180*, that is after the burnout box and the car sitting on the transbrake on the line.

-Kevin-

What do you use to circulate the coolant ?

GST18 · Post by **GST18** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:45 pm

JDOliver wrote:
GST18 wrote:I run a unmodified block and head(1g on both). I run a -12an line in where the water pump would be with a -12an exiting out the front of the head. I have another -6an line coming out the back of the head. I run two different temp senors in the back of the cylinder head. The car runs great, I havent seen hot temps at all and I drive this car more than enough. With no thermostat/Single fan on all the time, on a 70* day I cruise about 140* coolant temps. At the end of 1/4mile pass, The temp will be right at 180*, that is after the burnout box and the car sitting on the transbrake on the line.

-Kevin-
What do you use to circulate the coolant ?

Electric water pump.

-Kevin-

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Sat May 26, 2012 4:05 pm

Here´s how i did after following Bill´s instructions:

measured where to new hole was to be drilled.. using the headgasket turned over using the existing hole as a "template" (? think thats the word for it)

drilled 4mm first så see that i was in the correct direction with the drill. testat with a shot of air. it was correct, so i drilled 8mm.
then drilled the hole in the headgasket, & machined the edges.

drilled the front holes 7mm then threaded them 8mm, istalled allen screws. but it did not turn out the very best, so i´ll have mt frierns Pelle weld of the holes & then drill a 2mm hole through the welds to make them "bleed" just a little as Bill mentioned.

pictures to follow.

Kristian

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Sat May 26, 2012 4:13 pm

JDOliver · Post by **JDOliver** » Thu May 31, 2012 11:34 am

"Electric water pump." Could you send me or post up the info here please. I really could use that. Thanks.

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:59 am

JDOliver wrote:"Electric water pump." Could you send me or post up the info here please. I really could use that. Thanks.

Davies Craigs EWP supposedly a lot of people use. you´ll find some
on ebay !

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:04 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:this is for the new guys,
we all got together on the front outlet some time ago but the pic's got lost in the mix of things so this is a repost of some old material.
This schematic shows how to use 'Burnellis principles' of flow by restricting coolant holes, what his laws says is that when you retrict the hole, you gain speed, like putting your thumb over the end of a garden hose to accelerate the water flow. The original head gasket had restricted holes at the front of the engine, which accelerated the coolant backwards towards the original thermostate in the rear of the engine, you must change the flow to move the coolant to the front of the engine to use the front coolant exit

This is the original headgasket design and you can clearly see how to change coolant flow from back to front

the way you close off the front coolant exit is by tapping the holes in the cylinder head and installing allen screws

Now for you guys who want to do a little more and clean up the engine bay, this is a front outlet with a rear mounted thermostate on the water pump. This has major advantages to cooling your engine with less effort for the cooling system
Using a dual staged thermostate you can mount it at the inlet of the water pump and that allows more time for the coolant to stay in the radiator ( more efficiant cooling) plus it creates a 'dynamic' thermostate thatreacts to differnt cooling requirements as the engine changes temperature, instead of a more 'static' system with the front mounted thermostate

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:43 pm

frontview of engine, here you can se the new wateroutlet in the head just
below/between the camgears, as you can see the cambelt is not perfectly
straightened here, but when straightened the belt will reside just 4mm
from the outletpipe

This will NOT work with the coolanthose/siloconehose im using since its 3mm thick.

So i will need to redesign the wateroutletpipe a litte, by cutting it shorter +
cutting it at an 45degree angle & weldning a short bit od pipe onto the existing one

This will make the pipe/hose stay some 12-13mm away from the cambelt = ok i think:

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:27 pm

Stock wateroutlet has been welded shut!

2.nd version of the new wateroutlet done: the pipe was straight
out before, not its 45degree sideways & tilted a little down.

KHRacing · Post by **KHRacing** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:54 am

9mm från cambelt to the water-outlet pipe. placed an 8mm bolt so you can see the difference from before.

Post by **AustinTSI** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:28 am

I totally understand the reason for wanting to have front exit and I want to do it on my build.

I just can't seem to wrap my mind around how the AE86 thermo housing works and how all the water hoses will need to be connected.

So assuming I want to actually have a heater and I want the front exit water modification, which of the thermo housings from the following web site would make for the nicest/cleanest hose routing?

http://www.ipsco.org/Custom%20Services/ ... custom.htm

cruuz · Post by **cruuz** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:16 pm

Just want to make sure that a factory rwd water pump(like from a MM) will bolt straight up to replace my 1g unit without trouble? I'm retaining my power steering and by looking at pics I dont see any reason it won't work. If so I'll run one of those. Also, it's been so long since I've seen it together, I can't remember where the coolant feed for the turbo comes from. Will that be able to remain the same? I'm changing to front exit with a pipe to accommodate the factory 1g tstat housing

natedog · Post by **natedog** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:30 pm

I'm sorry to be kicking a dead thread up, but does anyone have pictures of this, I'm finally getting around to my RWD build, and just want to verify before I start drilling expensive parts!. Thanks!

AllanL · Post by **AllanL** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:35 pm

photos are on page 1.

search for my other posts as well.

natedog · Post by **natedog** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:36 pm

Thanks, but the ones I am really interested are not showing up (at least not for me). The spots to drill and block on the head surface...

AllanL · Post by **AllanL** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:39 pm

you have to have a cylinder head on hand to know which and where to drilll...

if you have an original SOHC 4G63 cylinder head gasket, you could compare the holes with the DOHC cylinder head.

you will want to use the SOHC cylinder head gasket.

natedog · Post by **natedog** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:02 pm

Ok Guys, got my head gasket in for locating purposes. Next detail that I can't find is what hole to block off. I should clarify a bit though. I'm using a 2G head, so the rear holes are already in it. I just need to modify my gasket for them.

I was reading back in this thread where Bill mentioned only blocking one side on the 2g head will get the job done properly, instead of restricting both. sadly his pictures are long gone. Anyone save them? Thanks

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changing the cooling system to front exit

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