motor mounts and shifter relocation

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:22 am

workin on screaming eagles motor mounts

I put a dummy 4G63 engine with an R 154 trans in place to check how it all fit

I re used the stock rear crossmamber with the toyota mount

I wanted to be sure to clear the first gen CAS system

I wanted to find the shifter location and fix that

I know a lot of guys re used stock motor mounts but that dont make it the right set up

You have to measure the offset of the engine and find what is required to square up the system

after the measuring system is centered you can clearly see the offset at the rear

then the offset goes the other way at the trans output shaft

i got to square the engine not only up and down but also sideways and the angle of the engine , so there is no twist, then the mounts can be built

Mad Menace · Post by **Mad Menace** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:47 pm

Keep up the good work man.

JDOliver · Post by **JDOliver** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:23 pm

Thanks for the update and pictures.

JeffS · Post by **JeffS** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:51 pm

Wow, nice to see!

I have no doubt that if you produced these mounts that they would sell very well.

I know I would buy a set and a friend that would want a set as well.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:25 pm

Its not the mounts so much ( however they do need improvement) its the shifter I am intrested in, I have the parts I need but I need to build an easy simple shifter that gives an excellent 'feel' and a sharp shift

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:01 pm

bill for my set please base them off the 2" foward from stock location. or else id need to re do my exhuast,ic,pipes,coolant pipes and who knows what ever else.

i would think something like these would be easiest
http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/inde ... opic=95716

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:05 am

yeah, that is exactly the right set up but it needs some detail

that is a direct bolt replacement for the original mount but what I want is something more

those are about $100.00 bucks at Jegs under custom motor mounts for hot rods

The 4G63 is a very tall engine and the location of the mount is very low, I want to build this same style mount but about 3 inches higher and 2 inches wider, like a pro stock mid plate style set up, so it can absorb more enegry from the engine rotation

2 inches forward is just about where I have the engine Dave

i-w · Post by **i-w** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:23 pm

any updates?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:04 am

no, the T 5 MUST be finished first

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:29 pm

It may kill ME doing all this stuff >;o))))))))))))))))))))
I run an import car repair shop during the day, I do mechanical work and all the bookwork/taxwork involved

this shop is where I go to relax and build things

I mostly stay alone, because stuff I do requires so much thought and I block everything thing esle out

sell you one Smogmiester

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:30 pm

this set up will be set up at 2 inches ahead but in the future I will be setting a little furthur out

I want to build it so anaybody can take a complete Eclipes engine and stick it in, including the rear outlet and the CAS

then you can just flip the throttle body from one end to the other and still use the original manifold

plenty of room for the master cylinder

for those who want to know, the rear driveshaft flange is offset 19 mm to the passenger side

you can see how far I need to move the tail shaft over to the right

I am going to adjust my behousings away from the drag link a little bit

the intake just misses thr steering gear

Djchunter · Post by **Djchunter** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:59 pm

Bill you can use the thermo housing (top portion) off of a 1.8 1g and the outlet runs parallel with the head. So no need for custom stuff. We did that on our corolla when we were having clearance issues. Wish I had a pic but the motor is on the stand currently.

Verdad · Post by **Verdad** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:13 am

Ill get a pic when I get home, after I put on the new shoes I bought the truck. Up by 4 am.
scouts honor

Verdad · Post by **Verdad** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:37 am

TADA!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:24 am

'scouts honor ' Damn.........I aint heard that in a while >;o)
the true number for the forward offset is 3 1/4 inch, everything is re usable at that point.
at that number the amount of trans tunnel modification is much smaller, you only need to move the passenger side of the tunnel out about an inch and only within 5 inches of the front of the tunnel
I am trying to work out the proper tilt of the engine pointed downwards towards the rear end, its unrealistic to have the engine be exactly level with the rear drive flange but I need to find a good angle from the front of the crankshaft to the output at the tailshaft, so no heat develops in the u-jionts from excessive work

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:00 pm

the way I set up my scales is with this book that gives the details of where everything should be

after I got pretty close to where it should be located, I built a little stronger mount using an angle iron and threaded rod so I could tilt the engine

you can clearly see what the problem was with the original engine mounts, the passenger side was so close it couldnt use the rubber cushion

while on the drivers side I had extra room

just so we are all on the same page, this is located 2 inches ahead of the original location

I wanted a 2 degree slant towards the passenger side, so the engine tilts left

after measuring the drop in the driveline I found 1 to 2 degree was all I wanted in a tilt backwards

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:10 pm

Arktis · Post by **Arktis** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:36 am

Oooh, sexy.

rockthemullet · Post by **rockthemullet** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:13 pm

Any way we can get some measurements off of those from you, Bill?

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:11 pm

rockthemullet wrote:Any way we can get some measurements off of those from you, Bill?

i bet they come in the same box when you buy them

rockthemullet · Post by **rockthemullet** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:12 am

screemin eagle wrote:
rockthemullet wrote:Any way we can get some measurements off of those from you, Bill?
i bet they come in the same box when you buy them

Price and availability asap

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:47 am

well, what trans are you going to use? I need to work out the rear cross member too

It would be best if you bought your own set from Jegs and sent it to me, I will build a jig to weld them up, then I can send them to you

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:38 am

that long rod with the finger at the end of it is the key to building the remote shifter that is low enough to fit under the trans tunnel and move the shifter back as far as I wanted

you can see here how the finger fits in the three shiftshafts to move the R 154 through all the different gear selections

at the other end of the shaft away from the finger end I built this recepter at an angle in an attempt to keep the shaft low, I built this as a starter project, I will take the numbers I found here and continue to lower it further

I built a couple pillar blocks and found the correct numbers to build the shift ratio for the sideways motion in the shifter, it was about 72%

I cut away the rear housing so I could see the shift motion in all gears, it shift as smooth as silk >;o)

dees75z · Post by **dees75z** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:55 am

Awesome work bill

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:29 pm

I keep trying to mount the remote shifter as low as possible on top of the trans, I dont want as little obstruction as possible

I built a flange to mount the bridges accross and locate the new shifter rod, I keep moving peices back and forth, up and down trying to seek the lowest level and still maintain mechanical leverage

originaly I wanted to place a window here to see the pin go in place but I dont know if it would be an advantage to anyone

Silverstreak · Post by **Silverstreak** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:12 pm

bill why did you use a 2 degree slant toward the passenger side?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:27 pm

it lowered the engine and kept the crankshaft in a straight line back to the rear end and the 4G63 is designed to run at an angle to the passenger side ( in this case)
It also allowed the intake manifold to clear the booster and by lowering the engine, less tunnel had to be removed for the larger R 154 trans to fit

Silverstreak · Post by **Silverstreak** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:57 am

so would you suggest that for everyone doing this build we angle the engine 2 degree to the left?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:28 pm

I guess the biggest thing I came away with was that the engine mount on the right side was at least an inch too tall, I know it fit, but that doesnt mean it located the engine right
with the original motor mounts, the front U-jiont has to compensate for the transmission out put shaft being pointed down and to the right side of the car, its overworking the front U-jiont and eating power
I wasnt looking to tilt the engine to the passenger side, but I wanted to work with the original oil pan and that meant I had to leave room for the engine to move, and that same thing held true with the intake manifold, I allowed 1/2 inch travel in the engine

IF I built a custom oil pan, I would lower the engine as far as I could, its a tall motor and it would lower the trans to level with the rear differential
Because this has independant rear suspension, there is no need to allow the driveshaft much movement, so if I could I would have no angle in the driveshft and lower the trans about another inch, that way it would be level and lower the C/G at the same time

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:20 pm

I spent a great deal of time and energy developing motor mount jig so I can build repeatable engine mounts

It is amazing something we all take for granted has so many fassets, it was a real eye opener, you can see here the G54b engine mout bolt on the drivers side is 3/4 in higher then the EVO/4G63 drivers side mount

and to furthur complicate things, the crankshaft in the G54b is 1/2 inch higher into the block then the 4G63

even better yet is the fact that the enginge block is wider on the 4G63 then the G54b when measured to the drivers side engine mount

so after I measured and remeasured I found out what the crankshaft C/L was doing when mounted with the original G54b engine mounts, it raised the engine 3/4 in and set the drivers side offset left 9/16 in. after documenting everything I was within .040 thousands of the proper C/L when I used the frame gauges

I had to build a jig with the ability to cut 2 different sized mounts and achieve all the needed angles involved, nothing is square, the engine bolts are kept horizonal but the engine is mounted at and angle, the engine is built at a 2 degree tilt to the passenger side and the mounts ride in a cradle at 45 degrees

first the drivers side and next the passenger side

all the angles and demensions are kept in the square jig

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Tue May 24, 2011 11:42 am

Can't wait to get a set.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:44 pm

this is for Dave ( screaming Eagle) I am waaaaaay late but the original tail shaft mount is an inch too high

so the first thing I needed to do was attach a mount to the trans, I had to build a pressbrake die to form the shape in one stroke

after I built the die I placed a piece in and pressed it in the press

I built quite a few of these brackets over and over again until I found the shape and size of material I wanted, as you can see, this stuff is never a one shot deal, you just keep building and building until you hit it right

these are shock absorber bushings, you can buy any size you like, they cost about $4.00 bucks

I was playing around with different shapes and size bushings to see what was easy to work with and what looked and worked good

I will be using the original rear crossmember and building a mating mount for my design

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:53 pm

Looks awesome Billl

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:13 am

hows the baby, Dave? any pic's? >;o)

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:52 am

Here's my little peanut Rosalia Ann

[/img]

Post by **AustinTSI** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:24 pm

Bill, are the motor mounts being designed only for the 4G63 engine with an R 154 trans ?

With what you found in building them, is there a problem with the way people are using the motor mounts when running wideblock 4G64 with the stock 5-speed?

Also, when you build the T-56 wideblock housing will you also build motor mounts for that?

Thankx, David.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:29 am

screemin eagle wrote:Here's my little peanut Rosalia Ann
[/img]

just how cool is that ! .;o))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

WOW! many good healthy years of joy to 'peanut' may her time here on earth be better for the things we have done

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:35 am

AustinTSI wrote:Bill, are the motor mounts being designed only for the 4G63 engine with an R 154 trans ?

With what you found in building them, is there a problem with the way people are using the motor mounts when running wideblock 4G64 with the stock 5-speed?

Also, when you build the T-56 wideblock housing will you also build motor mounts for that?

Thankx, David.

I have not placed the 4G64 wide block into the car yet, thats an intresting question, I will find the answer on, as far as the tail shaft mount goes, the center of the original mount did not change , what I mean is the center location of the original mount is in the same place as stock, its the hiegth I had to change, the R 154 is 7/8 inch lower then original, if I get this worked out correctly, I can change and dictate how much material has to be removed from the tunnel and limit a lot of guess work on how to build the change

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:36 am

the single mount system I was working with, would not work because it was back too far for the original cross member

so I changed the upper mount to accept a lower bushing mount

then I built a steel lower cushon mount and it was just too much work to weld up and hold straight

so I built a third lower cushion mount out of aluminum

that finally worked

after a lot of adjusting it all worked out well

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:01 am

Awesome work as always bill

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 pm

lets find out Dave, I want to ship tomorow and get these into your hands
this is proto type so there maybe some changes
scratch that I know there will be changes >>:O)

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:41 pm

Now does this use the existing bolt holes on the tail shaft of the tranny or do the blank spots need to be drilled and tapped.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:28 am

these use all existing bolts everywhere, it uses all 4 existing tailshaft bolts

the only disapointment was that it was assummed the rear crossmemeber
could be moved back and forth using the existing two mounting holes in the frame rails to line up correctly, well, they dont

what I mean is there are two mounting holes on each side of the rear crossmamber, and several holes spaced out at even intervals in the frame rail to accept the crossmember holes, well, they must have used different rear crossmambers for other transmissions because they dont interchange, they are off by 1/4 in

while I used the very last two holes in the frame rails, I had to build a couple of extensions to allow the two bolt holts in the rear crossmamber to bolt up

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:12 pm

I got started on installing the mounts. Here's a few pics.

[/img]

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:18 pm

A few clearance issues but nothing that can't be moved. Need to make a new downpipe and driver side intercooler pipe.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:28 pm

thing is buried in there, make a copy of the down pipe and we will build a swap kit

I need the shifter extension too

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:14 pm

Making some progress. Should be done by the weekend if all goes well.

[/img]

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:21 am

how noticable is the change?

hows is my 'little lady' in New York? she need a cell phone yet? >;o)

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:48 pm

Oh yeah there's a huge difference in location. The exhaust housing went from being next to the frame rail to almost on top of it. Now there's more space on the intake side. It's good. Ideally a top mount manifold would work the best but there is enough room to make the stock stuff work.

She is already trying to grab cell phones next thing you know my car keys and credit cards will be missing.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:06 pm

she already stole your heart, whats a credit card?

I spent a lot of time placing the hieght of the engine so the stock turbo would fit with the stock exhuast manifold, if you need an adjustment, I can help you out at this end