How to get a 4g63 into a RWD kit car (Lotus 7 replica)...

[mcdougal]

I am in the information gathering process for a kit car build. I will be building a Lotus 7 replica at some point, but I want to get a clear understanding of what exactly is involved in mating a 4g63 to a RWD tranny. There are much simpler builds for the Lotus, but I drive an Evo right now and would absolutely love to get have a 4g63 powered Lotus.

From what I have read, it sounds like I have three main options: mate it (narrow block) directly to the tranny out of a manual Dodge Ram D50 (79-93) or Mighty Max (82-96), to a RX-7 tranny with an adapter, or to a Supra (86-92 I think) tranny with an adapter. I know there are other options, but these sound the most straight forward to me.

On to the questions...

From what I have gathered, the main thing I need to make sure of is that I get a motor with a narrow bellhousing and a tranny with a narrow bellhousing (or wide-wide). The motors are all the same (other than 6 & 7 bolt) and it is the bellhousings that differ, right? Based on the table on the front page of this site, it looks like both trucks came with narrow and wide block trannies depending on the year. Is that accurate? Just want to make sure I am reading the table right.

My plan is to tune the motor up to about 250 hp. From what I have read, it seems that the 132 tranny can easily handle that.

What parts to I need from the donor car in addition to the transmission itself? I know I need the ecu and wiring harness from the car that I get my motor from, but I want to know what all I need to take from the car where I get my transmission.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Once I have all of this info I just need to figure out which rear diff and subframe I can get to work in my car. It seems like using the Ram/MM rear end might be an option, but I haven't been able to answer that question yet. I kind of doubt it will be wide enough. I also wonder if it could handle the increased power.

[mcdougal]

Simplest route in my opinion would be 1G DSM engine, wiring-ecu, and accessories; Bill Hincher narrow block to W58 Toyota adaptor, and W58 transmission from a early-mid 80's supra or celica. 250 hp would be easily obtained with a few simple bolt on's and the w58 trans is a little easier to find and more affordable than other options.

Kane

Thanks, Mainstream.

I modified my original post a little while you were writing this so that it read a little more clearly....hopefully.

There is a 94 Mighty Max truck for sale in my area but I don't think it is what I need considering I think it's a 7 bolt. There is also an 89 Dodge D50 for $500 that should be a 6 bolt based on the chart.

Would you still recommend the W58 even though these trucks are available locally?

Also, is there a list of what cars the W58 tranny came in? I can't find one on wiki.

EDIT: Found the list here. Hopefully it's right.

* 1982-1986 Toyota MK 2 Celica Supra
* 1986-1992 Toyota MK 3 non-turbo Supra
* 1993-1998 Toyota MK 4 non-turbo Supra
* 1986 Toyota Cressida
* 1986 Toyota Soarer
* 1982-1992 Lotus Excel
* 1992-1997 Lexus SC300
* 1998-2005 Lexus IS300 5 speed

[mcdougal]

Thanks! I appreciate the input. I think you've sold me on this tranny/adapter plate/engine combo.

[mcdougal]

Oops...that's what I meant

[capev86]

and i thought you guys were putting mitsu 4 bangers in some interesting applications...now i've heard it all.

personally, if i wanted to build a somewhat practical lotus replicar, i'd use the 16 valve 2.2 out a spirit or daytona r/t (and put the 2.5 crankshaft in it). my opinion is the dodge 2.2/2.5 is just as bulletproof as the mitsu 2.0/2.4 and the 16 valve head on the r/t cars was actually designed by lotus (but built by chrysler).

the only rwd trans for the chrysler 4 bangers was the 5spd in the older dakotas (before they switched to the lousy jeep 2.5) and it has the same issues with durability as the d50 trans.

my impression is the d50 parts are generally more expensive because they are technically an import product, whereas the old k car era parts are dirt cheap. but the dodge r/t car parts are kinda rare and thus cost prohibitive too. either route you have lots of potential with similar pitfalls. forgive me, i do love reading up on info for all my various car projects and cross applying that knowledge at times. mitsus are still kinda new to me 'cause i don't have a bunch lying around to tear into.

now if only i could stick my spare 2.5 in my 87 ram50 to replace that anemic 2.0. i just think it would be nice to have a dodge powerplant in my mistu. there certainly were plenty of chrysler products with mitsubishi drivetrains. i wish there were more adapter choices available for all us backyard engineers. its all subject to what is mainstream and in vogue.

[Bill Hincher]

and i thought you guys were putting mitsu 4 bangers in some interesting applications...now i've heard it all.

personally, if i wanted to build a somewhat practical lotus replicar, i'd use the 16 valve 2.2 out a spirit or daytona r/t (and put the 2.5 crankshaft in it). my opinion is the dodge 2.2/2.5 is just as bulletproof as the mitsu 2.0/2.4 and the 16 valve head on the r/t cars was actually designed by lotus (but built by chrysler).

got any pic's of your project?

[capev86]

i don't have any recent pictures of my project. my 86 wagon won't impress the import guys (until i blow their doors off). it is going to be a regular 8 valve 2.5 T1 with a the garret turbo and intercooler setup from an 89 daytona T2 2.2 car, plus bolt in brake and chassis upgrades....the best mopar and aftermarket stuff. you can check out all my past and present projects on cardomain (capev86). right now i am putting my cash and energy into my 72 suburban c20. it is the most valuable vehicle i own and on the road, so my ram 50 and k car have to wait their turn. i have more ideas and plans than time and money. but there are a lot of years ahead and my paychecks will continue to grow with time. i do need to get something on the road next year because my hand me down daily driver 97 merc sable wagon has 207k on the clock and feeling her age (still runs beautifully though). the k wagon will be a year round car for when i need the passenger space, but the ram50 will be the bad weather vehicle as i plan to coat it with poly bed liner like crazy and not use it as a show car. i also have 2 motorcycles and a 39 year old camper in various stages of disrepair. one step at a time.....

oh....i checked one of my mopar fwd forums. i can bolt a dakota 2.5 bellhousing to an early toyato supra trans....similar to the 4g toyota 5spd swap but no aftermarket adapter required. still tougher than just using a narrow block 2.4 because i'd have to custom mount the trans and the engine, but i'd get to use my dynasty 2.5 that needs a new home. gonna keep on this. the pickup has the same issue as the k car....lots of rust. but it was my grandpa's last vehicle just as the k car was the family car and then my first car. sentimental fool, i know......

[mcdougal]

There are a ton of different options for the Lotus project. The reason I posted my plans on a RWD 4G63 forum is that I want to put a 4G63 in a RWD project. I'd appreciate it if the comments in this thread stay on the topic of how to get a 4G into my project, not trying to steer me in a different direction.

You're project sounds cool, but I'd like to keep this thread clean.

Any additional input on the original topic would be greatly appreciated.

[Bill Hincher]

I wish this site had a better display of all the foundation laying work that has been done to build the RWD option for the 4G63 and why
All the 'old hands' here have discussed and worked out details that get lost as the thread gets buried with time
' at a glance' Information can be a bit hard to find even if you know what to look for
Originaly, guys had to use a 'wide block' engine to convert to RWD using a Mazda bellhousing and a RX7 trans, that was okay but the shifter set too far back and it was index off to the drivers side, not to mention, you had to go to the expense of building the wide block into the turbo engine
You could buy a GM adapter from Buscher racing but it required a custom flywheel and torque converter for over $1000.00
So originally a bellhousing was built for the W 55-59 non turbo transmission for a 4wd rockcrawler to the 4G63 narrow block, as luck would have it, the W series Toyota trans was the same as the 2wd trans.
So now with this new adapter , you could convert your FWD narrow block engine to RWD without the added expense of converting the engine block to a wide block and use the original Mits flywheel/starter/pressure plate with just a factory stock Toyota disc
That was 4 years ago
Since then, the R 154 Supra trans, the T 56 6 speed trans, the GM auto matic trans and now the T 5 ford trans was built to fit narrow block 4G63 engine, so you have options to build what you want at a reasonable cost
After that the EVO 4 throuh 9 engine design was included into all the bellhousing designs,and you can choose between the FWD or the AWD flywheel when you order the housing
Cooling systems were worked out to use a front exit, wiring diagrams were posted , motor mounts were examined and drive shaft yokes were found
Its all here , but nowt easily on display
pound for pound, the 4G63 is fast cheap and plentiful, a ton of time and money has been spent and wasted developing its use in RWD
If you want to use another engine, then bring your ideas onboard and show us what you are doing, but we already decided on the engine we wanted, and I think it was a good decision to use the 4G63

[mcdougal]

Bill,

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide all of that info. I really appreciate it. You'll be getting my business at some point. Hopefully sooner than later. I'll have to call you at some point so that you can direct me in one direction or another with regard to transmission choice.

[DJpowerHaus]

I'll admit I haven't read through every post, but I was curious as to how possible it would be just to mount a 4G63 and FWD transmission transversely between the rear axle. I've seen a few Lotus 7 looking Locosts built like this.