any interest in the R 150,R151 trans?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:02 am

I am working out the R 154 options, Screaming Eagle made an excellent point, he has to rev the engine and throw the clutch out the window with the R 154, its geared too high, here is the comparisions

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th
R150 - 3.83 2.062 1.436 1.00 0.838
R151 - 4.31 3.32 1.52 1.00 0.83
R154 - 3.25 1.95 1.30 1.00 0.75

The R 150's 2wd are found on all the toyota V 6 trucks pre 86
The R 151 was used on the turbo 4 cyl Toyota truck and 86-87 and v-6 toyota trucks after 87
they sell for about 3-500 bucks on car-part.com and there are plenty of them

The input shafts are shorter then the R 154, and they are different before and after 86, but all I have to do is change how the bellhousing is built and then cut the back plate for wwhich ever trans is ordered

whatdya think?

mr.andaya · Post by **mr.andaya** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:10 am

c/p: Starion (KM132-M-CNL) 3.369:1 2.035:1 1.360:1 1:1 .856:1

just throwing that in there, hey bill got any shorter shorts =X ....... just kidding bud =D
-joe

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:25 pm

Of course all of this gear ratio talk is pointless unless you factor in you rear gear ratio as well.

The factory DSM gears are:
FWD 1st-3.083, 2nd-1.833, 3rd-1.217, 4th-.888, 5th-.74 with a final drive of 4.153
AWD 1st-3.083, 2nd-1.684, 3rd-1.115, 4th-.833, 5th-.666 final 4.929 rear 3.545

The R154 seems a little closer together and I don't particularly like the DSM gear ratios anyway.

Here is a speed ratio calculator:

http://www.car-videos.net/tools/speedrp ... ecalculate

Maybe we can come up with something better, but I think the gear ratios are pretty good.

Verdad · Post by **Verdad** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:00 pm

anything cheaper than the r154 would be great. people are using them on cheap 2jz swaps so in south florida the prices on r154s are nearing 800.

WTB more wideblock options.

On a side note. I have a T5 housing for ya Bill. Just PM an address and ill ship it. It has a very small hair line crack starting near the big end, but it doesnt even go all the way through.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:16 pm

the problem is in the Starions, they have the torque tube set up in the rear end with limited selection of axle ratio's available

the other problem is cost and availablity of the R 154

This all came about because I am building the wide block R 154, option and I been watching the cost of the transmissions . Once you pay $800.00 for a trans and $425.00 for a clutch, its hard to justify the adaptor

The 96 and up input shaft for the R 150 and R 151 should be the same as the R 154 ( 7.5 I have to make sure of that) and the input shaft of pre 96 should be the same as the W 55's ( 6.5)
the R 151 & 150 should be good up to 450 hp ( from what I can read)
the pre 96 trans sells for $300.00 bucks all day long on car-part.com and all you need is a Toyota disc with the OEM Mits pressure plate and I think it would use the W 55 throw out bearing collar

what I am saying is , I can either shorten or lengthen the bellhousing within a 1 inch range and drop the cost of the swap while increasing the gear ratio selection

Screaming Eagle sent me a T 5 box already , but thanks for the offer

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:42 am

oldcolt75 wrote:what is the case size differance ..

I dont think there are any, I will have to buy one and try it out

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:36 pm

I just signed up because i was looking to do this engine swap in my rock crawler project. I would love to see a r151 bell housing made. or a w56 bellhousing. So i can run my dual cases with my toyota trans.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:43 pm

welcome aboard Chad
thats how I got into this mess >;o)))))))))))))) I built the first housing for a rock crawler guy in California

The pre 96 R 151 is very tempting and not really that much more work to do, its a cheap good trans and I could see that adaptor taking the place of the W 55 adaptor

the R 154 wide block option is very close to being done

Chad · Post by **Chad** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:47 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:welcome aboard Chad
thats how I got into this mess >;o)))))))))))))) I built the first housing for a rock crawler guy in California

The pre 96 R 151 is very tempting and not really that much more work to do, its a cheap good trans and I could see that adaptor taking the place of the W 55 adaptor

the R 154 wide block option is very close to being done

I know i can get ahold of a pre 96 r151. Id LOVE that option

M brother has a 91gsx and ive been eye ballin the swap for a year or so. Just picked up a 91 toyota pickup that im building and i want to do this one right

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:05 pm

[quote="oldcolt75"]will this open more options for the people doing 4x4 do they use the same bell housing?[/quote]

I too just joined this site. I'm in the process of planning out my drive train in a truck I'm building. Its a 1982 Suzuki SJ410K pickup truck. Its going to be a rock crawler/mud truck/etc etc. truck and Ive been hunting down the best motor to use with a toyota 4x4 5 speed and dual transfer cases. Thats how I ended up here. For the money toyota doesn't make a motor that can compete with the 4g63 that is easily swapped. Ive been doing a bunch of reading and I read that there is a bellhousing made to adapt a W series tranny, but not an R series. The transmission of choice for my application would be the R151F out of the 86-up turbo trucks. Would the bellhousing you are planning to make will allow the use of this? The only thing I'm unclear of is if the input shaft is the same in all of the R series trannys. I know there was a change in 96 to a longer one, but i cant find any info comparing the 2wd to 4wd boxes.... same question with the W56 input shaft dimensions being the same as the W series everyone uses in 2wd appplications. I would really love to see the R series bellhousing built because that is a much stronger tranny.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:59 am

from what information I have gathered, the W series Toyota 5 speed ( W 55-59 non turbo) is the same input length at the pre '96 R 151 and 150 which was built for the v6 truck and 22re turbo engines in 4wd and 2 wd

then after '96 R 151 and 150 was built for the V-6 truck but an inch was added to the input shaft length
so here is the deal

w-55-59 and pre 96 r 151 and r 150 = 6.5 inch input shaft

r 154 Toyota Supra turbo trans = 7.25 in input shaft

after 96 r 151 and r 150 V-6 Toyota trans = 7.50 input shaft

so I should be able to build my W 55 bellhousing to accept the pre' 96 R 151 and r 150

And i should be able to add 1/4 inch to my R 154 bellhousing to accept the after 96 r 151 and 150 trans

so by making a few changes to my housings, I can make one pattern to build the EVO and first/second gen 4G63 narrow block to the W 55-59 non turbo trans AND the pre 96 R 151 and R 150 trans ( depending on how it is machined)

and the other pattern would fit the r 154 AND after 96 r 151 and r 150
built for the EVO, narrow block 4G63 first and second gen

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:53 pm

Bill that is great news there. This means my drivetrain dilemma is finally solved. 4g63-R151-Toyota x-fer case (stock ratio)-toyota x-fer case (4.7 gears).

Any idea when you might be looking into making the move to manufacture the pre96 R151 bellhousings?

Its all going into this....

DoubleJ · Post by **DoubleJ** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:12 am

Simply amazing........

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:18 am

you just answered the question, whether to build the pre 96 or the after 96 R 151
Give me 2 weeks to adjust the pattern

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:26 am

[quote="Bill Hincher"]you just answered the question, whether to build the pre 96 or the after 96 R 151
Give me 2 weeks to adjust the pattern[/quote]

Jan/Feb time frame you will be hearing from me for one of these. I have to get the truck torn down and get the axles under it, then start working on the drivetrain. If I do this right, you should be getting some more calls on these from other Suzuki guys. I'll have a build thread going shortly.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:30 am

i sent the wide block R 154 bellhousing into casting Thursday so then
i started the R151/w55 bellhousing build yesterday, I needed to make sure the R 151 could be 'drafted' at the base of the bellhousing ( because the bolt pattern is so low) it will work, I will source a R 151 at a junk yard and veriy the input shaft and throw out bearing combination and work out the details

i will probably get the 2wd r 151 because I am working out remote shifters right now for the Starions

I will post some pics next week

StarquestRescue · Post by **StarquestRescue** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:10 pm

Well i was doing the math for a Starion g54b on 26" Drag radials and the only combo i ike is the R154 with the 3.909 gears. I have run the 3.90 and it looks like the r154/3.90 splits the difference between the km132/ 3.54 and 3.90 combos.

The R150 / 3.54 might work better for the really big turbo guys that need more help getting of the line and have the power to pull 4th to 5500 @ 116 in the quarter mile. Maybe a better freeway brawler also. And they will not have the expense of the 3.90's and r154.

For drag a lot depends on the hp level and where the rpm end up at the end of the track.

Could the wide block bell be made to take the r150 or the r154?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:19 pm

StarquestRescue wrote:Well i was doing the math for a Starion g54b on 26" Drag radials and the only combo i ike is the R154 with the 3.909 gears. I have run the 3.90 and it looks like the r154/3.90 splits the difference between the km132/ 3.54 and 3.90 combos.

The R150 / 3.54 might work better for the really big turbo guys that need more help getting of the line and have the power to pull 4th to 5500 @ 116 in the quarter mile. Maybe a better freeway brawler also. And they will not have the expense of the 3.90's and r154.

For drag a lot depends on the hp level and where the rpm end up at the end of the track.

Could the wide block bell be made to take the r150 or the r154?

yeah, the wide block R 154 bellhousing is a direct bolt for the G54b, the R 151 na 150 option is thought out for the 2.0 4G63 engine along side the w 55/59 option

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:44 am

I took the last w series bellhousing and put it on a diet
I thinned the walls and expanded the rear facing, I included the EVO 4/9 bolt pattern along with the first and second gen narrow block and placed the bolt pattern for the pre 96 R 150 and 150 trans as well as the original W 55/59 transmission , while I was at it I moved the starter bolts to the AWD flywheel

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:15 pm

Are the R151s ready to go?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:25 pm

I had too much pressure to deliver some W series bellhousings, so i had to re dress the pattern and have them done over having the new pattern done.
This is my first day back from 2 weeks off with pnumonia, so i will be getting it done shortly

screemin eagle · Post by **screemin eagle** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:34 pm

thats no joke Bill ive had it 5 times take care of yourself buddy

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:19 pm

Hope you get better soon Bill! No rush, i'm still gathering 4g63 parts.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:35 am

I put the 'pro' in procrastination >;o) NEVER tell me not to rush >;o)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I spend about an hour on it every day

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:47 am

Any updates on this?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:50 am

I just gotta get my act together and finish it, I didnt need them right away because I still had 10 old units on hand and I needed to sell them off to get enough money to start up the new design
so I set the proto type aside to finish some other custom stuff
but I am glad you bumped me >;o)

do you have atime frame?

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:40 am

No time frame. I'm still in the parts gathering process, and its going to be a decent amount of time before I NEED it. I can assure you once some of the 4wd crowd sees what drivetrain I'm about to piece together, that you will have a few more orders for these. One other guy named wayne (rotozuk on the forums) did a 4g63t with a 4wd w series behind it. I believe you made that bellhousing for him wayyy back when. Not sure if he ever ran into trans problems, but with the power I want to make the w series stuff will self destruct. So by you doing this r series model, it opens up a whole new ballgame on what kind of power I can run. 450rwhp in a 2500lb samurai is going to make the v8 guys crap themselves at the truck events. I'm just all about doing something different, heck, I guess that's the basis behind this whole forum. I will check back in a few weeks and see if you have made any progress. I do appreciate everything you're doing for the community and all the time you spend for us to have some fun.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:19 am

yeah, Wayne was back in the day, he is the reason I got into it.

what do you think about adding rear engine mounts like a mid plate in this system?

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:55 pm

I was going to ask you how you felt about the bellhousing as far as strength goes. Im not sure what kind of stress is put on a bellhousing, but heres a good example of what I did with the old setup.

So when I say its going to see abuse, I mean 5 foot of air under the tires isn't an uncommon thing. I dont see an issue with it, because the motor that i have previously had in it never had an issue with that. Just wanted your .02 on it.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:23 pm

anytime you lift a wheel on a 4wd system , its real tough on the crankshaft
you get the wheel up in the air and spinning , while the rear wheels are on the ground and then bring the front wheels back down in contact with the ground, the shock impact will be asorbed at the crankshaft flange

I first saw that in tandam axle trucks

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:53 am

Well I will check back and see when these might be done. I might be picking up 2 just to have one for a spare. Thanks again bill for all of the work you do for us.

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:28 pm

any updates?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:06 am

yes, I will post some pic's , the only thing I am going to have to change is the flywheel, I have to build them all the the AWD flywheel ( 270mm diameter)

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:05 pm

Bill, any updates?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:42 pm

Its all I been working on the last couple weeks, I finished out the dual bolt pattern for the trans side so it accepts both the w 55/59 trans or the R 151 or 150 trans

I am building 3 bellhousings right now, I want to be completed in a couple weeks

I liked how the bolt holes lined up in the T 5 project so well, I went back and did it to this model too

I spent a great deal of time on wall thickness, I wanted to get i as light as possible without sacrificing strength

these are built to be used on the narrow block first gen, and second gen and EVO 4 through9 its going to be used with the AWD flywheel, I can build it to accept the FWD but its too confusing to have them machined at a outsource if I switch around

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:10 am

Bill. Looks great! So you have made this to replace the current W series bellhousing and this one will accept either the W series or the R series with the shorter pre-96 input shaft? Kind of an all in one for the older yota stuff??... and it can be used in 2wd and 4wd applications if so. Alot of guys will benefit from that, those newer R154s are getting $$$$$ I'm getting rather excited to bolt all of this together.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:03 am

Mxtwo50r wrote:Bill. Looks great! So you have made this to replace the current W series bellhousing and this one will accept either the W series or the R series with the shorter pre-96 input shaft? Kind of an all in one for the older yota stuff??... and it can be used in 2wd and 4wd applications if so. Alot of guys will benefit from that, those newer R154s are getting $$$$$ I'm getting rather excited to bolt all of this together.

yes, that is exactly correct, international orders are leaning towards the W and R series trans, so I had to catch back up with those customers, I think the T 5 will fit the American buyers more
I have several orders for this to Australia right now so I am pushing hard to get this done, I also want to complete the T 5 and the Subaru guys in the North West are hot on the trail
I also have some orders for VW's in Pennsylvaina

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:01 pm

all the planning and designing is over, now its just sandiing

sand and fill sand and fill

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:54 pm

Amazing work Bill! When do you hope to have the first batch done?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:50 am

I have 5 requests, I have an employee going on vacation next week and I have to be at the other shop, so I intend on having this in the casting shop the end of this week and while I am working at the other shop it will be in casting, but even after all that, I never know it it is ' all good' until I have it back and see how it machines out, any one thing could be wrong sending the whole batch into scrap
the answer is 2 weeks

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:40 pm

I have the first/second gen Narrow block/EVO4 through9 W-55/59 non turbo and R 150&151 Turbo Toyota trans bellhousing adaptors out of casting but I havent had time to cut them

They look pretty good, I will machine one out and test it as soon as I get my other prototypes done

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:00 pm

this is the first R 150 narrow block 4G63 bellhousing , its built for Zack Mxtwo50r

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:42 pm

Way to make a crappy day into a good one. Excellent work Bill i cant thank you enough. Send some stickers with that bellhousing if you have any!

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:37 pm

Had to bolt them together... its been over a year in the making. I had to

Turbo is juuuuust about as big as the stock 1.0L

Garage full of trucks

1st ever bellhousing to mate a 4g63T to a R series toyota trans! Thanks to Bill for making this all possible!!

Moment of truth

Bellhousing bolted to the trans. The quality of work and craftsmanship that went into this bellhousing is simply amazing.

no clutch stuff in yet, Just checking fitment.

The first ever 4g63T mated to a R151F and 23 spline case. AKA the birth of a 400hp+ 4cyl turbo samurai pickup truck. Project "Jap Scrap".

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:39 pm

4wd 4g63T, with a trans and tcase ready to support 400+hp. I love it. Long road ahead of me but this is a HUGE advancement.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:44 am

damn! that trans is HUGE! did you bolt the clutch up yet?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:38 pm

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:26 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:bump

Havent forgot about you bill. Still have this project going. Life gets in the way of fun stuff sometimes. Its rolling now. Next I need to get the motor set in. Any ideas on who to contact for a clutch that will hold some good hp?

Mxtwo50r · Post by **Mxtwo50r** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:50 pm

Thinking I could use the same clutch setup as this thread in the projects section???

DoubleJ wrote:R154 to 6-bolt 4G63. Act 6 puck clutch w/ 2600 Pressure Plate.

Wonder if the input shaft on the R151 and the R154 is the same size and spline count?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:42 pm

yeah the spline is the same , its just 3/4 in shorter