Hello All,
I am having some difficulty in aligning my driveline. I have a six bolt on a stand in the engine compartment with a Hincher bellhousing / W series tranny. I have a Toyota 7.5" rear roughed in the rear. Nothing has been mounted yet, so it is all open to change.
The problem I am having is my output shaft of the tranny and the flange on the pinion are not in the same vertical OR horizontal plane. What problems am I going to have if I try to put a driveshaft in it with a two plane misalignment? I have done some reading and most books say that this condition is undesireable.
From what I have read, the shafts must be parallel in order to keep the angles the same at both ends. The higher the operating angle, the lower the driveshaft rpm limit. Length of driveshaft in inches divided by five equals the maximum number of degrees allowed. Not sure if any of this is gospel, but it is what I have found so far.
The engine is very close to the wheel house/fender/firewall - the oil filter housing would have to be changed to get it closer (the housing that relocates it to the side is NOT an option), then the exhaust manifold (with possibly a top mount being an option). Both of these changes would allow me to move the engine and trans over a little to get it closer to being just a one plane alignment.
Sorry for the long post. I did search this here and on the net, but really didn't come up with anything that answered the question. Thanks.
Driveshaft alignment
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4g63opelgt
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77amc
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You didn't say what it's going into?
I just finished up a yota rear in a 88 max and had to have it 'made' to fit the yota rear. Since it was a 2-piece shaft it posed more problems.
BUT, you should be able to get your engine 'roughed' in more for all your future attachments ie; piping, cooling lines, and such then after you have the trans attached to the block, get an angle finder and measure from the end of the trans housing where the oil seal inserts. That should be 'square' with the bellhousing.
You'll have to measure the centerline of the output shaft of trans and the front crank pully in relation to the frame that you'll be putting it in.
Then get your rear roughed in as close to that center line as possible.
You can add a couple deg of pinion angle depending on vehicle and try to get the trans end and the rear U-joint flange in "PHASE" to eachother.
Get those measurements as close as possible..
Errol
I just finished up a yota rear in a 88 max and had to have it 'made' to fit the yota rear. Since it was a 2-piece shaft it posed more problems.
BUT, you should be able to get your engine 'roughed' in more for all your future attachments ie; piping, cooling lines, and such then after you have the trans attached to the block, get an angle finder and measure from the end of the trans housing where the oil seal inserts. That should be 'square' with the bellhousing.
You'll have to measure the centerline of the output shaft of trans and the front crank pully in relation to the frame that you'll be putting it in.
Then get your rear roughed in as close to that center line as possible.
You can add a couple deg of pinion angle depending on vehicle and try to get the trans end and the rear U-joint flange in "PHASE" to eachother.
Get those measurements as close as possible..
Errol
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4g63opelgt
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I would like to get this in a 1973 Opel Gt. Sorry for leaving detail out.
The trans is mounted on the engine in the compartment. So, I need to get the engine and trans in a permenant position and determine the centerline, then get the pinion on the same centerline. As long as the transmission output shaft and pinion centerlines are parallel, and the angle is not too large, it should work ok.
The problem I am having is that the centerlines are not on the same line. It is going to be hard to get it on the same centerline. I was just curious how bad of a condition this is. Do I have to get them on the same centerline or is there a way to get it to work? Is there a way to work around a two plane misalignment?
I was kicking the idea around of getting a wider rear and cutting one side of the housing and axle down to make it on the centerline of the engine and trans, but that is going to be expensive.
The other idea was to get the engine and trans shifted over to match the centerline of the pinion. The problem here is two part: the oil filter housing and the turbo. It would be possible to fab up an exhaust manifold to get the turbo out of the way. The oil filter housing could be reworked to give a little more room. I don't know if it will be enough.
Sometimes, it is good to get direction from someone who has done it before, so I really appreciate the suggestions and advice.
-David
The trans is mounted on the engine in the compartment. So, I need to get the engine and trans in a permenant position and determine the centerline, then get the pinion on the same centerline. As long as the transmission output shaft and pinion centerlines are parallel, and the angle is not too large, it should work ok.
The problem I am having is that the centerlines are not on the same line. It is going to be hard to get it on the same centerline. I was just curious how bad of a condition this is. Do I have to get them on the same centerline or is there a way to get it to work? Is there a way to work around a two plane misalignment?
I was kicking the idea around of getting a wider rear and cutting one side of the housing and axle down to make it on the centerline of the engine and trans, but that is going to be expensive.
The other idea was to get the engine and trans shifted over to match the centerline of the pinion. The problem here is two part: the oil filter housing and the turbo. It would be possible to fab up an exhaust manifold to get the turbo out of the way. The oil filter housing could be reworked to give a little more room. I don't know if it will be enough.
Sometimes, it is good to get direction from someone who has done it before, so I really appreciate the suggestions and advice.
-David
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4g63opelgt
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Ok. I found this after rewording my search. This helps and says that so long as the thrust angles and angle at the pinion and output shaft are parallel, things should be ok in an offset.
http://www.tekatlarge.com/Automobiles/Driveline.html
Thanks and if you have experience with this, I still wouldn't mind reading about it...
-David
http://www.tekatlarge.com/Automobiles/Driveline.html
Thanks and if you have experience with this, I still wouldn't mind reading about it...
-David
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Bill Hincher
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Hi david ,
sorry for the late reply no rush , i have a bellhousing set aside for you
but the engine in all cars do not set in center of the frame, they are always offset away from the driver by 2 or 3 inches, this is also true of the rear end pinion set up, the are all mounted to the right a few inches, other than that you have most of the right information from errol
sorry for the late reply no rush , i have a bellhousing set aside for you
but the engine in all cars do not set in center of the frame, they are always offset away from the driver by 2 or 3 inches, this is also true of the rear end pinion set up, the are all mounted to the right a few inches, other than that you have most of the right information from errol
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4g63opelgt
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Thanks Bill! Yeah, I got a streetrod book on motor and driveline swapping and they really make a big deal out of getting the angles aligned correctly on a car. They really scared the crap out of me when they say a two plane alignment is not desireable. That's why I got the book in the first place - so I could read it on the shitter! Then I found that link. There is all kinds of stuff about the extended cab 2wd S10's wearing the u-joints out, and guys having bad vibrations from not getting it right, so I thought I'd try to get someone with experience on the subject.
In my application, right now the motor is over towards the driver's side of the center line, and the pinion is over toward the passenger's side. I shouild get some pictures up, but I can't figure out how the heck to paste pics. Cut and paste don't sem to work. Hey, thanks to Errol and Bill for the response.
In my application, right now the motor is over towards the driver's side of the center line, and the pinion is over toward the passenger's side. I shouild get some pictures up, but I can't figure out how the heck to paste pics. Cut and paste don't sem to work. Hey, thanks to Errol and Bill for the response.