Modified Intake Manifolds

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:31 pm

So everyone has seen the modified intake manifolds with the TB welded to the opposite side right? Quite a bit of fabrication to get a smooth flow and make it look factory. Well what about flipping the manifold upside down?

I was looking at that today and it seems possible. You wouldn't have to mess with making a new flange for the throttle body or anything. The only small issue would be eliminating the EGR runner on the manifold itself. It would also clean up the upper part of the engine and tuck the manifold under. There isn't anything on the manifold that you need other than vacuum ports. The fuel rail even conveniently attaches to the head. The EVO manifold is different, but we're not concerned with that. Do you think it's possible or should I even attempt it?

It looks like you can just cut the runners at the head flange and flip it. The ports seem to be symmetrical as well so no need to modify that or anything. You would need a good band saw to get a clean cut, but the factory flange is thick and should provide enough material to make a nice piece.

If I get positive feedback on this, I'll see if I can get someone to weld one up for me. Anyone want to buy a nice RWD JMF intake manifold off me?

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Thu May 29, 2008 2:52 pm

Does not hit the starter. I thought of that when I got started. The only other issue I might have in my 510 is hitting the steering box. I don't think it will be an issue though. Just a thought since I can't get the manifold mounted up very well due to the studs on the intake side and the intake cam sprocket being in the way.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu May 29, 2008 6:40 pm

I tried it Jeff but the bolt pattern is all wrong >;o( I aint saying it aint worth a try, its kinda neet

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri May 30, 2008 11:56 am

What do you mean "all wrong"? I just wan to cut off the flange and weld the intake manifold itself upside down. The trial fitting I was doing was just to see if I had room. The bolt pattern is definitely wrong to mount it as is, but should work when re-welded. I have an appointment to get it done tomorrow. I hope it all works out and it gets done quickly so I can post the progress on it. If it does work, this will be a good option for everyone to have in their swaps.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:25 pm

it is a pretty cool idea

Fabritory · Post by **Fabritory** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:14 am

i see this being a trend

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:56 am

It just seemed easier than trying to move the throttle body flange. It also cleans up the top of the motor a little. Very similar to what the Nissan motors do. (SR20, KA24 etc.) Hopefully I'll get mine done this week and will be able to show everyone what it looks like in my engine bay. Now, if we could get a good exhaust manifold that would tuck the turbo under too.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:12 am

no Kane, I think there is plenty of room for the A/c
It looks like a clean, neat way to build the intake, I dont know if its any easier to build because of the welding required, but its neat >;o)

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:11 am

Plus you can hide the stock coil packs back there and run the stock spark plug wires cleanly. Nice. What's involved?

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:56 am

I suppose you could make a plate, but is that really easier than welding? The plate I'm imagining would have to convert the bolt pattern one way and then back to the other. I don't have my old intake with me to see what you would have to do, so I'm not sure it would even work. I think the runners might be in the way of some of it. Hopefully I can get my modified intake this week. It's killing me waiting for this thing.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:29 am

a spacer would move the intake out further, it may interfere with the engine bay some where else, if you are going to weld it, you may think of making it a little shorter

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:59 pm

this is for David at idriftnaked, who wants to stay smog legal
you can see how the exhaust enters the intake on the lower left side of this pic, it is then routed up to the intake plenum through the ERG valve

this is the same manifold from the side, you can see the exhaust routing port

now that exhaust is kept seperate from the intake gas as it travels up to the throttle body inlet

now this is not to be confused with the crankcase venilator ( PCV) valve set up, they are completely different, this sytem simply keeps vaccum on the crankcase at all times

this is an EGR valve cut in half, it is just a valve the opens or closes, when its open is only when the enginge is wam at cruise speed under 'no load' conditions

after the valve is opened, the exhaust gas is routed into the throttle body end of the intake plenum

all you need to do is use Davids idea of the external tube to connect the EGR ( after the valve) from the right side of the head to the inlet area of the throttle body

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:55 am

Well, I finally got it back from the welder. It fits pretty good. There are a couple issues. He didn't cut the flange close enough to the head and caused the runners to not quite line up right, I'll have to smooth things out a little to make it flow properly. Also, the front stud (cam side) needs to have the nut started before you tighten down the head due to clearance issues with the EGR passage. If you eliminate the entire port or cut it closer to the EGR valve, then you shouldn't have an issue.

The "major" issue is clearance of the first (now) lower bolt. It won't go on due to the bracing cast into the manifold. Some grinding should take care of it. I will leave the bracing for the sake of strength, but someone else may choose to eliminate it and not have this issue. I will also have to put some JB weld near the EGR path because the welding torch could not get into a little groove there. I'm sure it might be an issue later, but for now JB weld will work.

Here's a couple pictures of how it looks right now. I still need to smooth out the runners and I want to shave the old casting marks just to make it look nice.

Fits pretty nice in the 510 engine bay. I'll likely have to move my brake distribution block just to be safe, but it fits well enough to leave it alone.

Here's the problem area. I'll take care of the bracing when I smooth out the runners and clean up the welds a little. I want it to look more stock, so I'll sand blast it to get a rough texture. Then I'll throw some paint on to make it look nice and clean.

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:27 am

i really like your idea jeff, it looks pretty clean! in a way it makes my idea look simpler since i wanted to use 2 different types of intakes to make 1. now that i think about it since you cut the flange off and clocked the intake, it would leave the egr ports open that i need to route my egr pipe a lot easier. makes me want to try it out. thanks for the post

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:46 am

It dont get any better than that Jeff!!!!!!!!!!! got any pic's on how much clearance you have for the master cylinder?

emagdnim · Post by **emagdnim** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:13 am

I like it, I wonder if that would work on the magna manifolds for the quest.

I wish there was another option for the quest motors, then we might see some cars evolve and get faster.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:00 pm

There is another option for the Quest. Swap in a 4G63 motor!

Bill I'll get you some pictures of the master cylinder. There is plenty of room for it to fit now. I don't think the A/C compressor will fit, but I'll try it out anyway.

As far as intercooler pipes go, I will need 3 short 90* bends. Shouldn't be too bad.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:51 pm

There is probably more welding, but you don't need to angle your new Tb location or anything like that. initially I was going to swap the TB flange and go that route. But the back side of the plenum is a weird shape and you still need to block the stock TB flange in some way. I just figured since the ports are symmetrical, that you could have a clean manifold that might look stock. Bill did an amazing job on swapping a TB flange, but this won't require any additional material or work. just weld and go. Well you'll need to smooth out the new runners a little. This works for me. Someone else is sure to get a better idea, but this is my idea for now.

Roc · Post by **Roc** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Hi, New here anyways I was looking around.... But Does an 03 evo 4g63 use the same manifold design bolt pattern and all as the the older 4g63, If so Why not use an aftermarket or even a new evo manifold? It will be facing the proper direction with no fabrication....... EDIT I just talked to my friend and its a diffrent design for sure. Unstead Why not swap out the manifold flanges reweld them and TWALAA you have a nice manifold.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:57 pm

FAAAR to easy Roc-man

I think its because of clearence issues with the brake master cylinder

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:13 pm

i just realized that i have 5 different mitsu intakes. 1 being a metal custom for the 1st gen, evo 8 intake, sonata intake, jdm cyclone for the 1st gen, and a regular turbo intake. i'll take pictures of each on my engine just to answer peoples questions on how they would interfere with anything in a starquest.
sorry jeff if it seems like im trying to take over, but on the contrary. Im trying to clear this post up so we can concentrate on YOUR upside down intake idea on THIS page.

i will post asap

kurb_appeal · Post by **kurb_appeal** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:31 pm

Now what about this idea on a starquest? S dont have my manifold right now or I would check it out. Has anybody done this by now or have their manifold to try it out and maybe post some pics. I would like to see this before he gets to work on mine.

IDriftNaked · Post by **IDriftNaked** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:43 am

if your talking about the evo intake then yes i'm running the exact one in the pictures above posted by bill

kurb_appeal · Post by **kurb_appeal** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:00 pm

Well I was able to find a stock intake hear in town. It will not fit in the starquests without some other modifications It will hang down to low and hit the steering box and wont bolt up on the bottom.

AutoHausFab · Post by **AutoHausFab** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:39 pm

my question is can you just eliminate the egr the short runners i saw on other sites dont seem to have the egr

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:05 pm

why not TRY to do it right?

the rules are , that you can alter any existing emmission control systems with a newer emmision control system of a given vehicle
which means you must upgrade the emmissions but not downgrade to a previous year standard

so for a streetable engine , if the vehicle came with an EGR system, it should maintain an EGR system

things are about to get much tougher with the government we have now

AutoHausFab · Post by **AutoHausFab** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:29 am

my question was is it possible to do away with it if the head is capable of bein blocked off or if the tune needs to be changed

AutoHausFab · Post by **AutoHausFab** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:11 pm

so does anyone know if its okay to block off the EGR and eliminate it will it crate any problems in the head or with tuning

shroder15 · Post by **shroder15** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:36 pm

It will not create any tuning problems or any other issues aside from not passing emmissions (assuming this is a 1g motor/harness). They make EGR block off plates for the motors that bolt to the manifold as an inexpensive modification to the DSMs. If its a 2g, you should just run into a CEL issue. Best of luck!

AutoHausFab · Post by **AutoHausFab** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:49 pm

cool the reason i want to eliminate the egr is im building a short runner from scratch and yes its a obd1 car

shroder15 · Post by **shroder15** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:50 pm

Then you will have no issues...just make sure you block off the EGR passage from the head. I personally ran a set screw into it, but it sucked tapping it because it was at an angle

AutoHausFab · Post by **AutoHausFab** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:53 pm

one more thing anyone swapped out thethrottle bodies and what did you use

shroder15 · Post by **shroder15** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:35 am

I know the q45 throttle body can be used...and as far as I remember, the TPS sends the same signal, you just have to wire it in. Only thing is I dont think it bolts straight up. If you want an inexpensive upgrade, just swap to a 2.0 N/T throttle body from the 1gs...its a few millimeters larger, and you dont have to worry about a TB elbow...just use a matching coupler. If youw ant the q45 throttle body tho, your doing a custom intake mani anyways...just get the proper flange to bolt it up

AutoHausFab · Post by **AutoHausFab** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:36 pm

if anything what will you get from the larger tb and does the tps plug in for the 2.0 n/t

shroder15 · Post by **shroder15** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:52 am

2.0 N/T throttle body is plug-n-play. As far as the q45, for the cost, its probably overkill for your setup...It simply helps eliminate 1 restriction in your intake tract...a 2.75 in coupler will fit right over the throttle body. If you need some good/inexpensive couplers check out the link in my sig. 4 ply and about half the cost of what everyone else offers.