bellhousing development for T-56 trans

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:32 am

the fit and finish is perfect, very little has to be done to the pattern, what does have to be adjusted only pertains to making it easier for machining process

Lets get together Matt and work out the input shaft length, I think what I will do is change where the pilot bearing rides in the crankshaft or flywheel to compensate for long or short shafts

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:24 pm

Looks Great Bill,
I will call you tonight from the shop so we can go over exact dimensions

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:47 pm

cant wait to get mine!

turbosigma · Post by **turbosigma** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:07 pm

Quality.

Sorry if its been answered - but what is the distance from the block/bell to the both shifter positions?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:16 pm

its all in an article on the first page of this thread

turbosigma · Post by **turbosigma** » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:47 am

thanks Bill

found this - may help - link

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Fri May 01, 2009 10:28 am

Bill,
Whats the dimension in regaurds to length of the bell housing. IE the distance from the face that mates to the transmission from face that mates to the block.

I need that dimension to gauge where the engine should be placed. This weekend I am going to dry fit the long block and attempt to make slotted adjustable engine mounts. Can you tell im itching here LOL Im sure Im going to have to make the mounts over once I get the trans bolted up but owell at least I can cut my harness to length and adress any side to side fitment issues.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 01, 2009 12:42 pm

my kid's on vacation this week and I havent beenable to workon it, I gotta get4 R 154's done this weekend so bare with me

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:52 pm

bill, i may be back in the game with a new colt here very soon. i was thinking of going auto again but you know what? your shit is so good i HAVE to go stick this time around

my question is this, i dont want to go t56 because i dont want the shifter so far back so will the 6 speed bellhousing work on a TKO 5 speed? im looking at buying Ians colt very soon and im actually looking forward to buying your masterpieces

you can email me at alphaflooringinc@sbcglobal.net if you need to.

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:14 pm

oldcolt75 wrote:
peregrine wrote:bill, i may be back in the game with a new colt here very soon. i was thinking of going auto again but you know what? your shit is so good i HAVE to go stick this time around my question is this, i dont want to go t56 because i dont want the shifter so far back so will the 6 speed bellhousing work on a TKO 5 speed? im looking at buying Ians colt very soon and im actually looking forward to buying your masterpieces you can email me at alphaflooringinc@sbcglobal.net if you need to.
does that mean you will be slling the w58 that comes with the car

if the deal goes through im only buying the shell. no motor no tranny. just a roller. im happy with that and Ian can make more money

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:13 am

oldcolt75 wrote:that or he will just put it into that dart he just bought

thats a joke right?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri May 08, 2009 10:26 am

the T 56 is all I am going to be doing right now, then the EVO and then the wide block, after that the t 5 in the mean time I gotta build the housings I am selling, I will put the TKO 5 on my list but Matt Arruda and Shearer are going to come first

75COLT · Post by **75COLT** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:14 pm

Not to hijack Bill's thread here w/ what I am going to do and not going to do. I am still going to build a 4g rwd something. The 1968 dart I posted in the project section is getting a mopar big block. I am looking in that direction though. Bill is amazing and I don't want to start something here. If the transaction goes through w/ Peregrine, it is going to be good for this forum to have him back around. He is also a wealth of knowledge. I wasn't totally sold on the colt. So w/ everthing said, Bill get back to work!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:57 am

This is for Matt Arruda, Tony chan and paradox
the T 56 is done and its just drop dead gougous >;o) reminds me of the time I was on the russian border on a midnight train ride when I was checked in at the Polish border by a drop dead gourgous russian customs officer >;o) ( true story)

the input shaft depth spacing came in real nice

this is the original 4G63 first gen clutch fork and pivot ball,the fitting is very nice, I am placing the slave cylinder on the passenger side again to avoid the exhaust heat

I had to decide how to construct the throw out bearing, it was a toss up between the thicker collar or a custom throw out bearing holder, I went with the collar because it added strength

I did this in aluminum but the real deal will be done in steel

I re used the stock Toyota throw out bearing from the W 55 series trans cheap and common parts

the pilot bearing was placed in the flywheel on this trans because its the short shaft ( 5 1/8 in) I will place the pilot bearing into the crankshaft on the longer shaft versions, that way I can use one bellhousing for both transmissions

BADDUDE fixed me up on the disc, ( he is great to work with ) this set up uses the original AWD flywheel and starter, the cusom disc, and the original Mits clutch pressure plate

I have to fit the slave cylider yet, I need to adjust the throw of the clutch fork just a bit but it will be fine

this is the total assembled package with the clutch all installed

the starter is the stock Mits unit in the exact same place as the FWD unit, the threads must be drilled out of the starter and the bolts must be started from the engine side back into the bellhousing

there is plenty of room for any intake manifold unit to be installed

I will be building two seperater plates,one at the engine /bellhousing location and one at the bellhousing/transmission location

turbosigma · Post by **turbosigma** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:58 pm

Awesome!

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:55 pm

Wow This is going to be well worth the wait. Amazing Bill

I just hope that this T56 likes shifting at 9K LOL. If not a call will be placed to Liberty for their Pro shift / Face Plate option, I cant wait.

http://libertysgears.com/proshift.htm

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:32 am

I got some questions about bellhousing from a lot of new guys

I get lost about time, we been working on bellhousing design for about 3 years here on this site, so i forget new guys dont know what the goals were.

Its all cool to throw out any questions on the thread, that way everybody knows what going on

i try to keep all my stuff under $ 400.00 and I try to use as many OEM parts as I can so it dont bust a guys wallet to build a hot rod

everything I have built so far is the narrow block first and second gen bolt pattern, I used to stick with the FWD flywheels but guys wanted the AWD set up so I have done the last couple builds around the AWD

The wide block guys are asking for the R 154 trans so I will be building that next , but in the meantime I am incorperating the EVO bolt pattern into all my current narrow block stuff

and I will be building the RX 7 option for narrow block soon

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:26 pm

any updates on the T56 bellhousings?

41chev4g63 · Post by **41chev4g63** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:19 pm

Looks like you're making great progress.

I have a lt1 t-56 all lined up just have to come up with the money!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:47 pm

Gentleman Rogue wrote:any updates on the T56 bellhousings?

yeah, I have ten castings, I will be sending 3 out next week, I am working with Matt Arudda to sort out input shaft length, I think right now, I will be building them as they are ordered until I get a handle on which models have which input shaft length and how to treat them

Shearer · Post by **Shearer** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:45 pm

Shepherd will probably have a gearset for these soon as well.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:53 am

matt Arrudda sent me a LT throw out bearing cover to work with

the input shaft is almost 2 inches longe in the LT version T 56 soooooooooo somebody had to take one for the team

this is the LM model that I had built with a 5 1/8th inch input shaft

I will be building an adjustable trans facing to allow me to build each bellhousing to suit the given input shaft

this first bellhousing will be built as a one of a kind for Matt, then I will be adjusting the pattern to accept the longer version

41chev4g63 · Post by **41chev4g63** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:44 pm

Wait now im confused.

Which version of the t-56 is going to be easier to use with the housing? LS or LT?

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:57 pm

The 1st batch of castings where based off the shorter LT1 input shaft but Bill being the nice guy that he is, made things simple for anyone who buys a T56 either LT1 or LS1.

Both version T56's will be compatible, it will be the buyers responsibility to inform Bill what version T56 they have and he will build the coresponding housing to match the input shaft length hope this clears things up.

Please correct me if im wrong Bill
BTW Bill to avoid confusion the LT1 is the short shaft and the LS1 is the long shaft you have them mixed up in your previous post.

41chev4g63 · Post by **41chev4g63** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:20 pm

Ok, you will be able to use either trans but, since the casting was made with measurements off the LT version, that one might be easier to use/less modification to already cast housings, right?

LT1 is the short shaft and the LS1 is the long shaft you have them mixed up in your previous post.

Thanks for clarifying this I thought it was the other way around.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:06 pm

its more about shifter length really, the shorter input shaft will place it closer to the firewall
there will be two models avaliable , I will cast a set for the 6,46 and the 6.50 input shaft and still maintain the 5,10

the next casting will be done with the EVO bolt pattern as well

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:38 am

I bought all kinds of starters, AWD, FWD first gen, second gen, they all have different listings but I will be damned if I can tell any difference, but this one 'took one for the team'

Even though I had run all the numbers, I had to see to believe the starter was properly located to the AWD flywheel

I also needed to make sure I had a full gear engagement without being too tight

the starter location is not located by the starter bolts, so this plate is an important locater

because the bellhousing had to be flowed down so hard, the trans had open gaps in the front of the housing

so I cleaned up the instalation by adding another cover plate at the back of the bellhousing to create a smooter appearance

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:51 pm

the anticipation is killin me! let me know when i can buy one Bill!

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:20 pm

because i like to standardize my stuff, I replaced the throw out bearing collar to the exact size of the Toyota R 154/ W 55 throw out body I.D. so anybody can get the throw out bearing from any Toyota trans or dealer, then I went on to create throw out bearing holding bodies so that anybody can get the same set up from me with my kits ( so you can get the complete kit without sourcing out at the junk yard)
so I replaced the aluminuim model with steel

I cleaned up the trans with a better spacer plate

I used new studs in the trans to bellhousing connection

the studs and spacer plate cleaned up nicely

I finished out the clutch controls with the OEM first gen Mits clutch fork and pivot ball with the W55/59 series Toyota throw out bearing
the starter holes are tapped and threaded with steel inserts because the starter bolts must go in from the opposite direction now, so you have to drill out the threads on the OEM starter to bolt it up

I gotta build a long shaft version for the T 56 this week, but I will be building about 6 of these in the next two weeks

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:15 pm

so will this still use the stock LT1 T56 slave cylinder to actuate the throwout bearing? whats the cost on the whole thing going to be?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:44 pm

the slave cyinder comes with the housing, its from the 85-89 Toyota Supra
I am going to put together some pics of a complete kit and break it down as to how you can buy it
I talked to some other guys who all say they would like a complete kit with the clutch included
I sent out the throw out bearing holder and the throw out bearing collar to a local machine shop, so I gotta wait for the final cost on that before I know exactly what its gonna cost but I am trying to keep it under $ 400.00

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:01 pm

this work is towards the long shaft version of the T 56 bellhousing for Matt Arruda's shop

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:31 pm

Looks Good Bill Cant wait to start testing.

We are off to NJ for the DSM Show Down be back on Monday.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:17 pm

hey Matt, how did you do?
because of all the different T 56 input shaft lengths, I built a depth tool to make sure of my designs

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:05 am

Looks good Bill,
We had a good time in NJ unfortunatly we didnt bring any cars it would have been cutting it too close so instead we are racing this Saturday at a local import event in NH. Overall NJ was good I got to netwrok with the RWD crowd. Attendance for RWD consisted of 4 cars Anthony and his Dad from PA with their rail, Kara from PA Ken Kustom Chassis rail, MAP performance in the FD RX7, and Kevin Jewer from NH in his 1G talon. All of which were backed by auto's ranging from power glides, to AOD's, to air shifted G-Forces.
Kevin Kiggly ended taking the Q16 win in his FWD, and MAP took 2nd with a 8.8XX. I will post pics in another thread of all the RWD's that attended including this weekends adventure in NH.

So Bill, describe to us whats left in the development of the T56?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:30 am

I was going to E mail you this week, your all set, I have a functional T 56 long shaft in my hands, I had to build the input shaft depth tool before I could finished it

I dont care how many times, you draw it out or do the math, there aint nothing like seeing it physically

I gotta build the two seperator plates and I can get it out to you tomorow

this is a hand built proto type, I will be measuring what I have, send it out to you and see what changes you may like and after we get it right, I will cast them, but this is a useable, working unit that I will send

I reused the same slave cylinder location as the short version, there is really no need to relocate that but I might do it on the first casting set up just to lighten it up a little

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:41 pm

which T56 are you building the first batch of bellhousings for? i have a T56 from an LT1 car; not sure which application had the "long imput shaft".

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:53 am

the short input shaft (5.5in)is from the early F body camaro's, it had a pull style clutch, the later t56 came with the long shaft (6.5in) and was re fitted with a push style clutch

92 GSR-4 · Post by **92 GSR-4** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:33 pm

Hey Bill,

That is some amazing work you do. I have a couple questions about your many designs:

Is there any benefit to using the internal style slave cylinder? I see that it eliminates the clutch fork/pivot ball assembly. Also, how about the fwd vs. Awd flywheels? Alot of DSMers have issues with clutch disengagement and I believe alot of it comes from incorrect step height with an aftermarket pressure plate. Your thoughts?

-Seth

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:11 pm

so i'm screwed basically? or are you going to make a bellhousing set up for the short shaft as well? might be a good move as id assume those T56's are the cheapest/easiest to get your hands on...

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:35 am

well, here's the deal on the clutches, Seth, I use an OEM flywheel, I can build the FWD flywheel into my unit but most guys wanted the AWD flywheel because there were more options available in clutches ( but it really was a mute piont because the clutches were interchangable)

anyway, the bellhousing is built to accept the OEM Mitsubishi AWD or FWD ( depending on how you order it) complete Mits clutch units, wether it be a twin, disc , high dollar 'yazoo 2000' or wether it be a box stock Mits pressure plate with the Toyota spline in the disc, if it fits into the FWD Mits bellhousing, it fits my bellhousing

As for the T 56 long shaft and short shaft, I built the original in short shaft, I have 5 of those left in stock, the long shaft design seen here is a one of a kind proto type, built for Matt Arruda that i will develop into a casting by itself, so I will be able to provide a bellhousing for both transmissions

92 GSR-4 · Post by **92 GSR-4** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:20 pm

Hey Bill, I was confused between your R154 bellhousing. That's why I was asking about an internal slave cylinder:

I understand the clutch disc for the T56 trans has to be custom because of the splines. I went back and read this entire thread and most of the others.
I just have to say....great work. I'd love to learn this type of machining, I've only been able to play around with a lathe a few times

I'll be in touch. I'm building a RWD car soon...just gotta sell this FD RX-7 since I really just cant throw a 4G63 in it...I just can't. There's something on the way though, so I'll be needing a bellhousing.

Just a thought...but do you see any advantage to incorporating the internal slave cylinder from the R154 into any of the other bellhousings you offer? It would eliminate the external slave and clutch fork...might help.

-Seth

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:14 am

just money
those steel hydralic lines are over $100.00 plus a $150.00 for the bearing , not to mention, you have to remove the trans to adjust it, but thats just me >;o)

all the trans set up's I build have the same throw out bearing holder in common, you can use the internal throw out bearing shown, in all my stuff, just order it that way and I will build it

coltboostin · Post by **coltboostin** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:37 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:
As for the T 56 long shaft and short shaft, I built the original in short shaft, I have 5 of those left in stock, the long shaft design seen here is a one of a kind proto type, built for Matt Arruda that i will develop into a casting by itself, so I will be able to provide a bellhousing for both transmissions

Just to confirm- Short shaft = 93-97 GM T56 correct?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:26 pm

this is what the parts guides say

Input shaft / main drive for all GM T56 transmissions, 1994 - 1997 (except Corvette & GTO).

Genuine OEM Tremec/Borg Warner part. Part # 1386-585-005.

Overall length - 9.31".

31 teeth.

Input shaft / main drive for all GM T56 transmissions, 1998 - later (except Corvette & GTO).

Genuine OEM Tremec/Borg Warner part. Part # 1386-585-010.

Overall length - 10.62".

31 teeth.

the difference in input shaft length is 1.3 inch

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:51 am

Bill

What type of pilot bearing is required, for this application, where do we buy them?

Just to clarifiy to avoid future questions

-LT1 series (short Shaft T56)
-LS1 series ( long shaft T56)
will both have a pilot bearing that is supported by the CRANK SHAFT.

Bill feel free to correct me it this info is wrong

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:29 am

the pilot bearing happened to be the same as the Starion, it 38mm id and 40 od

I used a toyota throw out bearing Toyoya OEM # 90363-400-2277, from the w 55/59 trans

the pilot bearing is going to be used in the crank on all models, the input shaft is sooooooooo long

I gotta finish a wide block R 154 proto type here shortly and i will be back on the T 56 set up, I want a nicer finish and relocate how the pivot ball sets in the housing

after you mock that up matt, I will probably replace it with a newer set up

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:42 am

[quote="Bill Hincher"]the pilot bearing happened to be the same as the Starion, it 38mm id and 40 od

Bill 38mm id seems kinda big I dont have the input shaft in fornt of me but I will measure it when I get back to the shop. This must be a very thin wall bearing? ( only 2mm between the ID and OD ) is it a needle bearing?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:21 am

your right, atfer thinking about it, I will remeasure and get a good number

Matt Arruda · Post by **Matt Arruda** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:02 am

Picked up both bearing at the local parts store yesterday

Pilot shaft bearing part number is 6002-2RSJ

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bellhousing development for T-56 trans

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