so can I run 4g63 stock camg ears with a 64?

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:15 pm

DONT SPEND THE $35 IT WILL COST YOU TO GET THE RIGHT ONES!!!! thats too much money

89coltgt · Post by **89coltgt** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:23 pm

Buy a set of new cam gears, they are only ~25 a piece from the dealer. I think this is what John was trying to say.

Fwiw, you can use the 4g63 gears, but you will have to make new marks on them.

slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:26 pm

They are 1/2 a tooth different, but I can't remember which way. They will work, but your cam timing will never be correct. And those who say they can just be remarked and work perfectly are wrong.

turbostellar · Post by **turbostellar** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:08 pm

why not get some nice adjustable cam gears?

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:05 pm

I just paid 75 for a shop to redrill a new pin hole for the 2.6 max engine that i just built up. I asked him to drill it 4deg advanced..

I'm sure that someone competent could broach another keyway at the desired advance. Like say 180 out.

Adjustable gears look cool and stuff, but there's always the chance of them loosening.
And anywho, after you find the right advance, you never touch it again..
Kind of a waste.

Errol

slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:51 pm

errol, that 75 bucks that you paid for one 2.6 cam gear, would buy 2 SETS of 4g64 gears. I do say to get 2 of the exhaust gears though, no since having the sensor wheel unless you have a 95 head and plan on using the cam sensor.

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:00 am

So the stock 4g64 gears have an advance 'built in' to them compared to the stock 4g63 dohc gears?

OR by using the '64 gears, it just gets you back to a 'stock' setting?

And what sensor wheel? I thought the cas fit into the back end of the cam..?

I'm a little cornfused..

I need to re-read that part again in the 'how to'

Thank you.

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:36 am

i can't find it from the home pc.. I can just click on the header and it comes up on my laptop at work, BUT NO, NOT THE HOME ONE.. I don't know if I'll ever like computers, Kinda like women.. You just can't do a 'virus cleaning', defrag or change memory like computers.

I just looked at it this way. If you put a protractor on it and just scribed the lines of what deg you want. intersect that line with a dowel hole for the 2.6 and gett he right spacing from cam bolt to said hole and your done.

I don't know the other engines yet so i can't say where the keyway can go.

I'd think that if it were at a 'tooth', just measure from that to the timing mark and add a few deg. THEN go 180 out and redo that mark, and measure the new keyway. BOOM.
He should be able to figure it out.

BUT are they the same size, tooth count as the reg eclipse/talon 4g motors?

The 2.6 was 19.5 teeth apart @45 deg. I think.. No, I think there was 38total teeth. Just divide by 4.
(I'm not going to go out in the shop and look right now)

I had donated some older Honda 1200 ones long time ago to a guy on a site and he made some really nice and purdy ones.. But like i said, once you find what they like, you don't change it.
To me, the payscale for a machine shop to make one or just broach a keyway/drill ONE hole is way cheaper than an adjustable one.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:55 pm

stop making everything so complicated.

slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:28 pm

to do correct "stock" timing, you need 2 cam gears from a 95 Galant with the 2.4L DOHC.

You CANNOT just remark 2.0 cam gears and have everything "stock" as far as cam timing. You CAN use the 2.0 gears if you don't mind having your cam timing off from "stock."

You CAN use 2 exhaust gears from said Galant. The intake gear has a sensor wheel on the back of it for the 95-96 style cam sensor, which was bolted to the front of the head, under the gear.

You MUST use a timing belt from said Galant with the 2.4 DOHC, the 2.0 belt is just too short.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:14 pm

Maybe you find this pic some assistance.

I move 3 teeth advanced, then RE-INDEX the MARK on the gear 3 teeth advanced, the re-drill the dowel pin 3 teeth adavanced + 2.5 crank degrees advanced (making the cam advanced 5 degrees) and another drill hole 3 teeth + 3.5 crank degress (making the cam advance 7 degrees)

This makes up the LOSS of degrees by machining the block, head or wear on the chain.

And I agree...a SLOTTED 2 peice gear is there to BLEED YOU OF CASH!
Exposing the HIGH DOLLAR gears spells DISASTER for your engine. You won't believe how much SHIT (sand, gravel etc) is flowing under your hood.

Adjust your cam timing...and close er' up for good!

The three-tooth advance gives you enough ROOM to re-drill or broach the gear without weaking the hub. This system will work on MOST engines.

And I don't see the need to RETARD the cam timing...cause EPA did it to us 30+ years ago for emissions. Sooo, let's cheat!

A real dyno pull helps, but so does your ASS DYNO!

And...I would NEVER-EVER use a re-ground cam on ANY ENGINE.

Especially ROLLER CAMS!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:59 pm

When using 2.0L cam gears remarked for a 2.4L by half a tooth the pin is off of TDC by +4.5 cam degrees. (360* / 40 teeth / 2).

On a 2.4L engine with a decked block and milled head, do you think this would be a good or bad thing?

Does this all work out everybody? Peer review me...

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:39 pm

oldcolt75 wrote:umm dj i think its time to change the proffesors name from knowlage seeker to knowlage knower

dj's math is correct. On the 2.6 it was about 9.18 degrees per complete tooth...as I recall.

I am a REAL P-r-o-f-e-s-s-o-r. But I do mispell words all the time. Kinda like your....I can't count that high.

Psst...you look like one of my Indy Pro car drivers. Really.

Bright kid, don't care how he spells....I just want him to DRIVE to WIN!

We be in the top 7!

That's his sister....

cause he drives way better than score with the chicks.

Main Entry: knowl·edge (cough, with a "d")
Pronunciation: \ˈnä-lij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English knowlege, from knowlechen to acknowledge, irregular from knowen
Date: 14th century
1obsolete : cognizance
2 a (1): the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association (2): acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique b (1): the fact or condition of being aware of something (2): the range of one's information or understanding <answered to the best of my knowledge> c: the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning : cognition d: the fact or condition of having information or of being learned <a person of unusual knowledge>
3archaic : sexual intercourse
4 a: the sum of what is known : the body of truth, information, and principles acquired by humankind barchaic : a branch of learning
synonyms knowledge , learning , erudition , scholarship mean what is or can be known by an individual or by humankind
5 Professor Quest's words not to taken lightly but cracks alot of jokes

That's right, hands in your pockets! Touch NOTHING but the steering wheel and only when we ask you to do so.

I lost count on how many cars you TOTALED!

slowquest · Post by **slowquest** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:33 pm

Professor, redrilling the gear is a GREAT idea.....if, and only if, you have the machinery and know-how to do it accurately. Most of us are lucky to have a sharp bit, let alone a drill press and the required setup to ensure the accuracy of drilling the hole in the proper place. For most here, I believe a better setup would be to use offset bushings, similiar to what is very popular with the small block chevys. But again, to do that properly, you should be degreeing your cams to know where they are actually timed. Just throwing a bushing in, or redrilling a gear to say you've done it is not the proper way to go, you need to know what that cam timing is.....

StellarDOHC · Post by **StellarDOHC** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:44 pm

I think a set of quality adjustable cam gears is the way to go if u dont want the hassle of getting stockers re-drilled and like to be able to tune. They may cost more, but if your setup ever changes such as going from NA to Turbo u can easily adjust cam timing. Also if u race the car, u can change cam timing for the track and then change it back for the drive home. And just cause they look nice does not mean u show them off and drive around without a cam cover, dedicated race cars can get away with that stuff not daily drivers.

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:00 pm

Slowquest, It wasn't hard to drill at all. Just use teh one that has te pinhole at the deg you would like and place the untouched one over it, clamp it together and drill.Using the advanced one as a guide use a transfer punch, give ita good swat and then just redrill..

Mine turned out fine. Did the roller rockres also with the Scnieder 274 cam.

Pretty darn simple if you ask me.

E

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:46 pm

WHOA!

I never suggested that you,....NON-MACHINIST TYPES, could pull that off on your own.

Bill Hincher could do that with his eyes closed (nearly).

I don't see ANY reason to have a SLOT to deal with when using a CHAIN DRIVE...or a BELT DRIVE.
I am WELL AWARE that chevy motors COULD use a sprocket/gear BUSHING.
(the very least of favorites)

Too bad it's NOT METRIC! duh, I investigated that idea into the ground.

Bill makes BEAUTIFUL PRODUCTS.....FORSALE.

I hope he uses that idea for you BELT & SLOT guys.

Cosmodyne Manufactor is....NOTHING BUT DEFENSE WORK, as in WEAPONS!
Very bright minds, and the BEST of CAD mills and guys that TOY with performance cars. (top secret...we don't even know what it is

)

Yes.....the son-in-law bought one of the off-the-shelf, sloted 2 peice for his Lexus IC300....turbocharged, blah blah blah. Red anodized. OH MY!

Look at the DATE. I told them (Richard Lopez, the owner of Cosmodyne and very good friend) what I wanted the gear to do.

Bout the time I read the Mitsu TSB over the 2.6L timing chain, I special orderd one for $100.30....run *MY* Cloyes modified gears, and I spank-ass when racing.

If you haven't held it IN YOUR HAND....you have NO CLUE.

And ahhhh, psst.....you can BUY metric drill bits too.

Also, I would NEVER-EVER use a RE-GROUND CAM....roller or not.

I talked to Schiender about FRESH CAMS. "No market, I would have to purchase 5,000 'blanks' to make them."

I say....you need to investigate a lil' deeper.

PERSISTANCE.....OVERCOMES RESISTANCE!

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:54 am

Getting back to the original thread. Shaun, did you ever get an answer to your question?

When the Galant gears are used, does it just bring you back to "straight up"? Advanced or retarded.
That prelude that I had, i put the intake on 4deg advanced and the exhaust on 3 or 4 deg ret from what I remember and it ran Very nice (for a N/A car) with even a slight boost in mpg.

E

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:43 pm

I guess that one could install the 2.0 gears and after the marks are made, use a fine degree wheel/dial indicator and list the cam movements accordingly.

Then, use the 2.4 gears and do it ALL AGAIN the same way, all to find out what if any difference there is in lift with duration noted..

E