how cool would this be?

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:48 am

so i have a 1967 Sunbeam Alpine that my father left to me after he passed on. i never knew much about them, just that they actually stuffed 260ci Fords into them in the 60's and called them Sunbeam Tigers. i wanted to swap in a 5.0L into mine, but after some research i found i would have to chop the shit out of the car to get the engine in there, and to do it, you have to use this crappy steering gear that kills the handling. being as rare as it is, and since it was my dad's; i am not willing to cut the car.

thats when the idea of a 4G63 swap popped into my head. im not sure, but i would think the 4G would be pretty similar size to the stock 4cyl, and even a stock 4G would put out about 2.5x as much power. what do you guys think? being in the middle of my truck build, i am just thinking out loud on this; but man, would it be unique or what? some pics:

http://www.iowaautoforums.com/download/file.php?id=2672
http://www.iowaautoforums.com/download/file.php?id=2678
http://www.iowaautoforums.com/download/file.php?id=2680
http://www.iowaautoforums.com/download/file.php?id=2681

evilhorde · Post by **evilhorde** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:05 pm

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am going to be doing a similar swap soon.
I have a '78 triumph spitfire that is going to get the 'spitsubishi' treatment as soon as I get my '75 spitfire back on the road.

I am using the D50 trans for now because the car only weighs 900Kg's and because I didn't know about the 'billhousing' before I bought the trans.
In my case, at least, the turbo 4g63 engine is larger than the original 4 cyl. It is taller and wider with the intercooler and turbocharger. Because of tight clearances under the hood it appears that even this engine is going to be a tough fit. However I am confident that it can be done because I have seen pictures of a spitfire with a ford 460 crammed under the hood, er bonnet. I was going to go the small v-8 route but after i found out that I can squeeze 300hp out of a 4 cylinder engine the idea of using a 500lb engine seemed ludicrous.

If you intend to keep the car forever I say go for it and take it to the local racetrack for some autocross fun, but if you want to sell it later, stock original is probably better. But make sure that it still gets to stretch those legs a little and take it to the track whenever you can stock or otherwise.

Here is my car:

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:12 pm

sticking a 4G in ANYTHING is a good idea. just my $.02

if you can get a light RWD car with a 4g in it and a decent size tire your gonna have a fucking blast. trust me

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:23 pm

Now we are talking about something very dear and near my hart: 4G63 in an old British convertible. If you guys are not familiar with my TR7 project, check out: www.reitmanracing.com

If you were gong to do this to Sunbeam Tiger, I would say you are crazy for even considering it (sort of like putting 4G63 into a TR8), but I do not have a problem with you doing this on a regular Alpine model. This will definitely be a neat project!

But do check out our oilpan issues and how I had to deal with it.

Evilhorde,

Are you familiar with a 4G63 powered Spitfire done by a Canadian mechanic. You could tell that the guy was not a DSMer and his swap was rather crude (he had to put a scoop on the hood), but still very impressive for the mid to late 90’s.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:31 pm

Here is a link to the Mitsu powered Spitfire.

http://members.tripod.com/~michaeljay/s ... it2000.htm

BTW, does anyone else find irony in Mitsu powered Spitfire? WW2 reference

evilhorde · Post by **evilhorde** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:25 pm

GRNDSM wrote:Here is a link to the Mitsu powered Spitfire.

http://members.tripod.com/~michaeljay/s ... it2000.htm

BTW, does anyone else find irony in Mitsu powered Spitfire? WW2 reference

I thought I was gonna be the first.

I've seen worse hood mods than that one. I hope to keep mine as stock appearing as possible. I would rather cut the firewall than bulge the hood but that may not be up to me. I won't know until I get started on it.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:34 pm

Really? I dislike it... A LOT!

It looks like something you do because you have to, rather than because it is a good idea. I/C location is also pretty bad.

I would do everything possible to keep stock hood profile! But it might not be possible, depending on hood height.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:22 am

You are going to point at a Subaru as an example of something done right? This is Mitsu forum, Subarus SUCK!

Also notice that any serius Subaru enthusiats convert their cars to a conventional front mount I/C

.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:04 pm

If done right, I think the water cooled intercooler is a better way to go. There are quite a few DSM buys going this route now. That Spitfire is a pretty clean looking setup in those pics, but you can't really see anything. I thought the coolant hose from the water pump was interesting routing it around the alternator. And the fact that he didn't use the 90* thermostat housing outlet. But most of us didn't know about that until recently.

Before you attempt this conversion Gentleman Rogue, you should measure your working area. There are some items you can modify on the motor to make this work, but others you're stuck with. The height and width of the motor itself you cannot change, but intake and exhaust manifolds can be custom made for your application. Do some measuring before you get in too deep. Just sharing from experience.

Gentleman Rogue · Post by **Gentleman Rogue** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:16 pm

i dont know if this idea will ever come to fruition; i was just kindof thinking outloud about it. neat idea, but it might be a bit too much with just too little room...

Turbotech7 · Post by **Turbotech7** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:58 pm

Malfunction junction starts with the exhaust manifold side, Flipping the turbo and using a stock manifold takes a lot more room. a top mounted simple turbo would be a cleaner and more space efficient way to go. if you are trying to free as much space as possible, that tand the cam gears.

4g63mightymax · Post by **4g63mightymax** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:28 am

I don't think that I could possibly tear apart that beautifully original engine bay. I am sure there are speed parts that you could put on the current Alpine engine to give it a bit of pep in it's step. Heck, throw a centrifugal supercharger on it. The thought of throwing a 4G63 in that car would be heartbreaking to me. Then again, I get emotionally attached to cars in junkyards.

-Jeremy

evilhorde · Post by **evilhorde** » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:01 pm

4g63mightymax wrote:I don't think that I could possibly tear apart that beautifully original engine bay. I am sure there are speed parts that you could put on the current Alpine engine to give it a bit of pep in it's step. Heck, throw a centrifugal supercharger on it. The thought of throwing a 4G63 in that car would be heartbreaking to me. Then again, I get emotionally attached to cars in junkyards.

-Jeremy

I can't speak for the alpine but in my case the original engine only has 3 main bearings. Anything over 100hp and you start running the risk of bending a crank. 3 mains, what were they thinking.

If they can put a V-8 into it at the factory I am sure there would be plenty of room to fit a 4g without hacking anything. Use a forward facing intake and it should be an easy go.
Yeah right

77amc · Post by **77amc** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:38 am

WOW, I'm torn on this one.. Man that's a clean Sunbeam! And doesn't look like that much room at all.
I'd look more toward a rotory in there just for space considerations. OR the older ford 2.3 "pinto bean" motors. They still race them most all over getting over 300hp (some are advertising!) Granted, those are "built" engines, but heck, even 200 would be a riot.
And maybe megasquirt FI setup

How is the suspension? Up to a swap like that?

I found a place Scottsoldrubber.com or something like that for old rubber seals and weatherstripping (not old rubbers..) They carry tons of stuff for old cars that could help ya out.

Just my .002 E