CAS sensor

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:12 am

mainstream wrote:I'd like to see it happen, but it looks as if it may be cost prohibitive to most. I wanna see the front mount CAS and top mount manifold, that's what I'm missing or my swap. Maybe you could offer financing.

Kane

If you are serious, I took a look at this and found an answer, I would be glad to build you a front mount set CAS up with your help.

Complicated Bill

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:29 am

I'd like to hear more on this.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:33 am

well, we would just make a nut to bolt up at the front of the left cam, that would accept the slots in the sensor and then make a mount for the sensor from the bolts in the block from where the front motor mount used to be. That way you would just turn the senser around to the front of the same cam..............damn! what time is it there ? dont you sleep?

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:17 am

Sometimes I sleep.

What I don't understand is how you are gonna get the CAS to read correctly w/o building a completly new "crown". If you look closely, it seems that the "window" of open space is wider at one spot than the other. This is for how the Ignition knows what cylinder to fire (when #1 is at TDC I believe). If you just mount the sensor on the front it will be reading backwards. Also, I believe that you would have to machine the valve cover out to clear the sensor and make a customer valve cover gasket.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:26 am

the other option would be a toothed timing belt driven 'one to one' to and alternative mount for the CAS, I would make a mount and drive the belt from one of the cams

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:36 am

Now that you mention it, you could probally drive it off of the mounting bolts for the exhaust cam gear, use a small chain or belt drove to drive the CAS thats mounted on a custom mount- mounted on the side exhaust side so it's out of the way. It doesn't matter that it's mounted on the intake or exhaust cam, they are both driven at half the speed of the crank. The only problem I see with driving it off of the exhaust and not the intake is if you have adjusted your cam timming seperately (intake advance and exhast retarded or etc.), but I don't think it would be that big of a deal.

Hell, what if you made some kind of mount to hold the CAS in the same position it is on the back of the head, but simply put it on the front. This would keep the front of the CAS to the front and the CAS spining in the correct direction. You could remove the flapper drive at the front of the CAS and run some kind of drive shaft threw the CAS cover (threw a drilled hole) from the front of the intake cam.

Just a thought.

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:22 am

Guys, if you want a front mounted CAS, why not just use 95-96 2G setup?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:02 am

I don't know about the set up your talking about, I was responding to the questions I have been watching on here.

I think this can be done , pretty simple and cheap

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:16 am

Bill Hincher wrote: I don't know about the set up your talking about, I was responding to the questions I have been watching on here.

95-96 2Gs have intake cam sprocket mounted CAS (along with the crank trigger). It isn't the easiest thing to do, but it might be easier than trying to adapt a 1G CAS to the front of the engine.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:56 am

oh, I thought there was something pre-made that you knew about.

I was thinking of making a bolt head that had an extra straight cut gear, Like a 22R Toyota and then mount the CAS in the front of the engine in contact with the gear causing it to rotate backwards, it would be simple enough

carguyf545 · Post by **carguyf545** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:21 pm

instead of useing a gear, why not machine a peice that would bolt onto the cam gear(useing the cam gear bolt). then you could use a stock CAS

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:21 pm

that would be my first choice , but then you would have to reverse the firing order to the crankshaft
TDC would be the same #1 and #4 would be right, but you would have to swap #2 with # 3 cylinders to keep the rotation inline with the firing order

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:24 pm

I do not understand you guys, there is an OEM solution for this! Have you seen an '95-'96 CAS?

In the old days, before Magnus came out with 1G CAS on a 2G, people use to convert 1G heads for 2G CAS all the time!

It seems backwards, because most people go from 2G to 1G CAS, but hey, why not give it a shot? There are certainly enough 2G CASs being thrown away

.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:33 pm

well Leon,
what are all these guys talking about then?I beleive you ,got a pic?

GRNDSM · Post by **GRNDSM** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:04 am

Man, it isn’t easy to find photos of 2Ga CAS, because it seems that everyone who would take pictures of their engine by now have already performed a 6-bolt engine swap

.

But, thanks to RRE, I was able to find specific steps on how to adapt a 2Ga (95-96) CAS system on a 6 bolt motor.

You will have to install a 2Ga Cam Angle Sensor:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1g2g ... echtip.htm

And a matching Crank Angle Sensor (they were separate):

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2g6b ... nstall.htm

Now, they do not offer any directions on how to make it work with a 1G ECU, but I am sure that there is a way to do it. Or you can just use a 95 ECU/DSMlink/standalone.

Or for that matter, I wonder if 1G ECU actually needs BOTH of those sensors?

Anyway, it isn’t the cleanest solution, but it might be better than trying to attach some external mechanism for 1G CAS. And IMHO, it is certainly worth looking into!

Look Ma, no CAS

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:55 pm

I haven't even read this whole thing but you guys make me laugh.. If you were going to put the CAS on the front anyways, why don't you just take the trigger disk out, flip it around backwards and put it back in?

But that's all stupid other than the 95 CAS setup. Did you ever see the cam angle gears on my racecar? Check the main page: www.projectzerog.com the cam gears I pulled off a 95 had that sensor setup.

I've been thinking about experimenting with the 95-96 sensors for quite a while. It was pretty cool because you could eliminate the rear CAS if you made some mounting provisions for the crank sensor.. or simulate the crank sensor somehow.

I'll read this thread through tomorrow because my brain is just destroyed tonight. Girlfriend just deleted my entire family's hard drive

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:04 am

you dont gotta change anything in the CAS just swap the wires at the coils for proper firing order

Robert Venable · Post by **Robert Venable** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:46 am

Bill, what about cam timing. Wouldn't the exhaust and intake lobes have to be swapped to make this work?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:03 am

all that CAS is is a counter, it is two coils one for TDC and one to trigger firing order, with a relucter or star mounted to any rotating shaft.
Its set up just like ABS brakes or old cruise control set ups . The reluctor can be on the crankshaf hramonic balancer or the cam or the camshaft sprocet, it dont care as long as the information is the same

when the relucter passes next to the given coil and A/C wave is created, then the A/C wave is converted to a digital signal by diode / transistor system. that signal is sent to the ECU and signals when the ignition coil should be triggered.

The relationship between the cam and the crankshaft will remain the same, but , by reversing rotation and indexing to the existing TDC # 1 and # 4 cylinder will remain the same firing order, however # 2 and #3 will be firing on its valve overlap position, so the triggers for ignition #2 and # 3 have to be swapped to be in proper order,
If you wanted to continue to develop this stratagy, you would work in a mechanical advance unit, just like the old days, by pass the computer inputs to the advance curve and use the ECU just to drive the injectors

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:56 pm

That's one way to set technology back 20 years.

jeffball610 · Post by **jeffball610** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:05 pm

The easiest and cleanest solution would be to use the 2Ga setup. Easiest of all would be to just drop a 2G motor in with ECU. But for 1G ECUs I'm sure there is a way to reverse engineer the CAS. If you can use the 1G CAS like RRE does on the head swap, then I'm sure you can swap wires and make it work for a 2G CAS. The down side to the 2G CAS is you can't adjust your timing. Wherever the sensors are at, that makes it TDC. If you wanted to move your timing, you'd either have to move the sensor, or make some fancy way to adjust it in the 1G ECU. For the 2G cars, you have to have a Scantool just to adjust your timing. I'm actually thinking about switching to a 1G CAS on my daily driver just to simplify it and so I can fix my timing if I want to.

Old Colt · Post by **Old Colt** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:53 pm

You can not just reverse a CAS. Granted it looks like you could flop the dizzy over but the pickups are not symmetrical.
Been there, didn't work. I have made custom dizzys for running COP and it took a few tries to get it right.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:56 pm

whats a ' dizzy' ?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:21 pm

DJpowerHaus wrote:
I'll read this thread through tomorrow because my brain is just destroyed tonight. Girlfriend just deleted my entire family's hard drive

your girlfriend aint an astronout, is she? be damn careful!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:46 pm

She redeemed herself by recovering all the files from a formatted hard drive.

lonestarion · Post by **lonestarion** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:11 am

this is like beating around the bush to get birs to fly, funny
im stuck in g54 land and intend on adpating 1g electronics
to 1 of my 88's, & even use the CA sensor