Starion 4g6x Swap ???s

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:17 am

Ive been doing some research before I start my 4G6x swap into my 88 starion. Im pretty much sure that i will be going with a 6 bolt 4G64 wideblock block with a 1g dsm head , but Buschur Racing has the adapters that lets you use a t350, t400 or a GM Powerglide with a 4g63 narrow block( according to Nick @ Buschur Racing) but they are all automatic trannies and im kind of a fan of manual trannies. If I do go with a wideblock i was looking into the T-56 conversion by MidwestTurbo does anyone have experience with that set up? Or maybe a Toyota w-series transmission by Japaneese Auto Repair? Are theese transmissions worth the money and effort? Thanks for your help I have other questions but first things first.

Thanks ,Walter

Old Colt · Post by **Old Colt** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:27 am

Have you thought to look around this site to see what resources are here?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:45 am

All my stuff is built for the 4G63 narrow block, the thought being that it would save the expense of building the wide block.
I have built one series for the W-55 and now I have built the new bellhousing for the r 154
Tomuchnos , has asked about a the 'T' series trans and Doug Nash set ups, he was supposed to come up with some drawings.
I can build it , but I gotta get some intake and exhaust work done first
I don't understand why you would want to build a ' truck wide block motor' compared to a ' perfomance narrow block motor'
Having a 400lbs transmission hanging on the back of the 4G63 makes no sense to me either. So what ? it handles power, but it makes the car heavier and it handles like a pig, and you gotta wrap the floor boards around it.
Sports cars were made for manual transmissions , old people invented auto transmissions so they could aviod buying a coffee cup holder and answer thier cell phone.

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:16 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:

All my stuff is built for the 4G63 narrow block, the thought being that it would save the expense of building the wide block.
I have built one series for the W-55 and now I have built the new bellhousing for the r 154
Tomuchnos , has asked about a the 'T' series trans and Doug Nash set ups, he was supposed to come up with some drawings.
I can build it , but I gotta get some intake and exhaust work done first
I don't understand why you would want to build a ' truck wide block motor' compared to a ' perfomance narrow block motor'
Having a 400lbs transmission hanging on the back of the 4G63 makes no sense to me either. So what ? it handles power, but it makes the car heavier and it handles like a pig, and you gotta wrap the floor boards around it.
Sports cars were made for manual transmissions , old people invented auto transmissions so they could aviod buying a coffee cup holder and answer thier cell phone.

youve obviously never been in a fast, auto, turbo car. they go together like bread and butter. no missed shifts, launching at 5500 on the brake. theres nothing like it. yeah 5 speeds are fun to screw around with and they make you feel more in control, but for my car and what i built it for, an auto is the only way to go

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:32 pm

Your right about the auto trans for the dragstrip and dating, its much easier to 'cop' a feel on the date if you dont gotta shift.
And yeah, a 5500RPM launch with a 392 hemi/ torqueflite is like standing next to a moving train and reaching out to grab it.
It just dont feel right to me to run an auto trans,built for a truck, in a sports car.
It's like Anna Nicole Smith dating an old guy for money, it just don't FEEL right.

I am wrong, I am sorry, I can change, if I have to, maybe, almost

peregrine · Post by **peregrine** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:26 am

Bill Hincher wrote:

Your right about the auto trans for the dragstrip and dating, its much easier to 'cop' a feel on the date if you dont gotta shift.
And yeah, a 5500RPM launch with a 392 hemi/ torqueflite is like standing next to a moving train and reaching out to grab it.
It just dont feel right to me to run an auto trans,built for a truck, in a sports car.
It's like Anna Nicole Smith dating an old guy for money, it just don't FEEL right.

I am wrong, I am sorry, I can change, if I have to, maybe, almost

i dont fuck on the first date........

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:46 am

LIAR!.............................liar,liar,liar

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:31 pm

Im looking to go with 350 to 400 hp Im intrested in the transmission that will hold up good to that much power and still keep as much reliability as i can. Also which transmissions would be best for a street/track car?

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:23 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:

All my stuff is built for the 4G63 narrow block, the thought being that it would save the expense of building the wide block.
I have built one series for the W-55 and now I have built the new bellhousing for the r 154
Tomuchnos , has asked about a the 'T' series trans and Doug Nash set ups, he was supposed to come up with some drawings.
I can build it , but I gotta get some intake and exhaust work done first
I don't understand why you would want to build a ' truck wide block motor' compared to a ' perfomance narrow block motor'
Having a 400lbs transmission hanging on the back of the 4G63 makes no sense to me either. So what ? it handles power, but it makes the car heavier and it handles like a pig, and you gotta wrap the floor boards around it.
Sports cars were made for manual transmissions , old people invented auto transmissions so they could aviod buying a coffee cup holder and answer thier cell phone.

Im taking intrest in the r154 anything i should look for? what Flywheel/Clutch/Pressure Plate would i need for this swap?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:01 am

I used a box stock 9 inch Toyota clutch disc

I used a FWD Mitsubishi Flywheel and pressure plate

I used a FWD Mitsubishi pivot ball and clutch fork

I used a box stock Toyota W-55 trans throw out bearing and collar

The center hole on the flywheel must be opened up to 32 mm

and finally I used a Toyota W-55 trans hydraulic clutch cylinder and pilot brg

Everything is cheap and easy to find, I am making a video of how it all comes together so I can show you anything you want to know

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:02 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:I used a box stock 9 inch Toyota clutch disc

I used a FWD Mitsubishi Flywheel and pressure plate

I used a FWD Mitsubishi pivot ball and clutch fork

I used a box stock Toyota W-55 trans throw out bearing and collar

The center hole on the flywheel must be opened up to 32 mm

and finally I used a Toyota W-55 trans hydraulic clutch cylinder and pilot brg

Everything is cheap and easy to find, I am making a video of how it all comes together so I can show you anything you want to know

Cool... Are there any aftermarket clutches that would work or will the stock 9 inch work good? also i have a Fidanza 8lbs Flywheel and a 2600 pressure plate? could i use these as well?

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:17 pm

the only thing you would have to check is the throw out bearing crown to make sure it would mate with the B 2600 pressure plate

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:10 pm

Bill Hincher wrote:the only thing you would have to check is the throw out bearing crown to make sure it would mate with the B 2600 pressure plate

im sorry i left out its for a fwd gst if you didnt already assume that

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:54 pm

Walter. Your last post confused the heck out of me. You're doing a FWD eclipse narrow 2.0 or an 88 Starion with a wideblock 2.4?

A T56 is a sure fire way to get a reliable transmission behind a wideblock. From the looks of things on SQC transmission tunnel modifications are minimal. Maybe some banging in spots, but nothing bad. You can get a clutch that will hold big torque with stock like pedal pressure.

B2600 Transmissions come 2nd for wideblocks in my mind but may be difficult to find and not as strong as the T56. Clutches and flywheels are the same as a Starion and 400hp might require a heavy clutch. There are twin plate clutch/flywheel options though which may still be heavy but have some nice benefits

88/89 Starion boxes are a good way to get the car on the road on a budget if you want to worry about the transmission at a later date. Clutches are the same as what I wrote for the B2600 above.

Bill's "Billhousings" are a nice way for narrowblocks. Definitely better than a D50 narrowblock transmission. Not sure what clutches you'd need for the power you'd like to make but I imagine it would be similar to a Starion clutch.

Dealz · Post by **Dealz** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:59 pm

DJpowerHaus wrote:Walter. Your last post confused the heck out of me. You're doing a FWD eclipse narrow 2.0 or an 88 Starion with a wideblock 2.4?

A T56 is a sure fire way to get a reliable transmission behind a wideblock. From the looks of things on SQC transmission tunnel modifications are minimal. Maybe some banging in spots, but nothing bad. You can get a clutch that will hold big torque with stock like pedal pressure.

B2600 Transmissions come 2nd for wideblocks in my mind but may be difficult to find and not as strong as the T56. Clutches and flywheels are the same as a Starion and 400hp might require a heavy clutch. There are twin plate clutch/flywheel options though which may still be heavy but have some nice benefits

88/89 Starion boxes are a good way to get the car on the road on a budget if you want to worry about the transmission at a later date. Clutches are the same as what I wrote for the B2600 above.

Bill's "Billhousings" are a nice way for narrowblocks. Definitely better than a D50 narrowblock transmission. Not sure what clutches you'd need for the power you'd like to make but I imagine it would be similar to a Starion clutch.

I am doing an 88 starion with a 4g6x. I am not sure wether I want to go with a 2.0 narrow block or a 2.4 wideblock. I want a transmission that will be able to take the power and not have to worry too much about breaking something. Bills "Billhousings " seem to be a good way to go they seem pretty strong. I thought the t56 was for a narrowblock but its good to know. I have a bunch of aftermarket parts from my 1g and 2g fwd dsm's I was just thinking that I might be able to use some of it.