Out with the old and drippy...
IN WITH THE NEW AND SPIFFY!!!
The final mileage on the original Engine/Speedo. Fitting how the trip odometer ended on 187...lol
And I gotta get this water pipe from the water pump to seal up... the little bastard is gonna cause a big problem in the long run...
Other than the minor water leak that needs sorted out, there is 1 small fuel leak right at the fuel rail, and for some reason my megasquirt is not working from the tach signal it has provided to it, I think it needs a 12v pull up built on to it to make it work, but for now, since I have been at this all weekend since friday, it's 37 degrees outside here and all of the actual Wrenching is done, I called it a day for today and will tackle it more tomorrow and hopefully get it running.... It sounds like it has good compression when I crank it over, I just gotta get the MS working properly.
Also, I notice you are running the same fan I had at first on the radiator... it did NOT work well enough if you are in any traffic at all.
I ended up getting a fan out of a bone yard off a 93 Taurus that keeps it cool no matter what I am sitting in temperature or length wise. at a minimum, get as big a fan with a shroud that you can fit on the stock radiator and you should be good.
Did you just add the pull up resistor out at the sensor or did you go the whole mile and do it inside the megasquirt? I think I will try a troubleshoot shot with the resistor out at the sensor and see if it works, if it does I guess I will add it inside the megasquirt case if I'm not too lazy.
and hell man I live in the country and travel mostly back roads at times in which dictate lesser traffic so I'm pretty much always moving when the Vehicle is running... unless I catch a cat nap in the truck in mid winter, but I will definately give you the "you told me so" rights if/when it comes to that... and for some reason I bet it will.
The pull up didnt work... not sure if the 2g sensors are gonna work... aint really got room for the 1g on the back of the head, so i may be going with the 36-1 bolted to the crank wheel
Whats the advantage of running Megasquirt over DSMLink? To me it seems like DSMLink would be a no brainer when comparing, but I don't know much about MS either. You swap is coming along great btw.
Justin G.
90 Mighty Max
91 Talon (10.4@142 on 93oct.)
Hmm, I think I may have gotten the same fan. Wondering if I am going to have the same issues. Just to check, its the fan out of summit, 16" dia, 2500 cfm, and 12.5 amp draw? I thought it was pretty big. You can give me a "told you so" too if it doesn't work.
I'll run some water wetter. I'm in Idaho so it not as bad as the deep south. I have a manual override switch hooked up too.
I am running the 1g cas... So, I can not speak to any issues specific to the 2g setup. Sorry about that. I do know that the following forum is a wealth of knowledge and will have the answers. Full of a lot of great innovators with the MS
The 16" fan from summit IS what I had and it moved 2500cfm according to the paperwork, but the biggest issue is that it did not pull that air through the radiator since it was not ducted nor have any real cowling.
yeah the summit 16" is what I got too.... we will see how it holds up in colorado conditions, it CAN get pretty hot up here at times too... but it's a dry heat.
I am ripping my hair out over this megasquirt not showing a proper tach signal, I have contacted Matt Cramer at DIYAutoTune.com and have tried all of the things that he has suggested like testing the U1 pin 14 for the signal, on the stim I have it and off the stim I do not have it.... so it has to be something to do with the sensor somehow... yet when I roll the engine over by hand and test the wiring with a volt meter, I SEE A SIGNAL... 12v to 0.4v which is supposedly "useable" by the megasquirt, and while cranking, since I dont have an oscilloscope I just see a signal somewhere in the middle like 5-7v... not on off on off like I would with a scope(MAYBE)... I will probably get it figured out on friday when I have the day off, It's kinda hard to work in the dark, and the cold.
So guess what..... I got it running...... Not!
I think I somehow burned up the Crank sensor with the pull up circuit, and I discovered a fuel leak.... right near the coils at the vacuum return on the fuel rail, so fuel leak, water leak, weak fan and a non-triggered megasquirt.... this whole project sure went down hill fast... starting to get a little dissappionted and a little discouraged... this is the longest me and my truck have been apart in 10 YEARS and I miss it.
I guess I'll just have to spend MORE money and get a cheap looking 36-1 wheel to bolt over my nice expensive aluminum crank pulley and go pull a junk yard sensor off of something on friday and hope that something works out in my favor... I guess I could go with the 1g setup and just beat in my firewall too, which I wanted to avoid and dont really have the room for the sensor anyway....
It sure sounds good cranking tho compared to the old "de-compressed" engine.
What are the condition of the CAS wires? Mine were pretty badly corroded after 20 years. But if you are getting a signal, then is probably not the wires I guess.
It's easy to get discouraged. But a leak here and there really is small potatoes and easy to fix. I think all swaps have their hicups and mis-starts.
My buddy bought a 7 bolt 2g for cheap because it was running rough. I told him to push in the clutch and I could see the harmonic balancer pully move! Now that is something to get discouraged about!
Well I have discovered that its not the wiring, or the computer and I have Matt Cramer at DIYAutotune to attest to this, it's actually that the 2g sensors are in no way compatable with the megasquirt. So we I believe have come to the ultimate conclusion that since the 2G sensors are incompatable and the fact that I dont have room on the back of the head for the 1G sensor due to firewall interference, that I must go to a boneyard and accumulate the parts of an EDID4 setup from 91-95 Ford Escort 1.9L engines which accounts for over 96% of all escorts produced throughout those years.
I must get an EDIS4 Module, the VR Sensor, the coilpack, all wiring plugs and maybe even the wiring itself, and a 36-1 trigger wheel... OR I get a Zeal Engineering Daughter board from DIY for $35.00 plus S&H and a 36-1 trigger wheel, And just use the VR Sensor that I liberated from a wrecked Thermo-king Trailer Refrigeration unit.
Mounting this trigger wheel is probably gonna be more bull$*#t than its worth, but I guess this is my final option if I want megasquirt.... or a running truck for that matter
I love my truck too much to beat in the firewall for a simple little sensor, but I have found a way around using the entire EDIS setup and only using the VR sensor and 36-1 trigger wheel and a gm HEI module as a VR conditoner.... headed to the boneyard this morning first thing once it opens to get an entire EDIS setup AND a few HEI modules that way I have BOTH options to try to get this thing running.
Mounting the trigger wheel is gonna be the worst part.
I wonder if the 1g sensor can be shaved down and still have it work... like removing the cap and seeing if it will fit without beating in the firewall... maybe Ill grab one for a 3rd option.
Mad Menace wrote:
I wonder if the 1g sensor can be shaved down and still have it work... like removing the cap and seeing if it will fit without beating in the firewall... maybe Ill grab one for a 3rd option.
I think it can but not by much. My wires were pretty corroded so I opened her up to redo the wiring. It’s only an optical sensor that shines through a pattern cut into a wheel so there is not a lot to screw up.
While at the junk yard today I liberated an EDIS4 setup off of a 96 Escort... I got the Module, Sensor, Coil Pack, 36-1 Trigger wheel, and the damper pulley since its a pressed together deal, all the wiring, a few goodies here and there which included an optical CAS (just in case) the original 93 chrome grille that belongs on it, a 4 wire o2 sensor, a 1 wire o2 sensor and thats about it... There were 4 new Mighty Max's in the junk yard today... I have only EVER found like 4-5 up till today.
I took all of this to the shop and discussed with my Dad the mods needed to get this trigger wheel on my truck, we removed the trigger wheel from the pulley which was actually pretty darn easy, then it struck us... I have an aluminum under drive pulley that I now need to fix a steel trigger wheel to... not gonna happen in my world... so then we looked at the fords pulley... its a 6rib belt instead of my 4, but the belt fits.... no problem, I see it as an adjustment. but heres the 3 biggest things. 3. Center hole does not fit crank, 2. no 4 outer mounting holes, 1. slightly smaller still than the under drive pulley... more under drive??? guess I wont be Idling too much... lol
This is simple now, grab the crank timing belt wheel for sizing and remove alignment pin, drill center hole in pulley to fit crank, drop pulley on crank THEN timing wheel, align as needed for trigger wheel/sensor position (I will be mounting the sensor at bottom dead center using front oil pan bolt hole for small sensor bracket), drill through alignment pin hole and re-install alignment pin and set through new hole in pulley, drill through the 4 bolt holes for mounting pulley to timing belt wheel, remove all the newly "adjusted" parts and re-install and check for clearances... trigger wheel slightly rubs raised ring on timing cover originally behind crank pulley... all I gotta do now is wire it all up tomorrow, which looks pretty straight foreward and well documented to me....
I hope this helps someone in the future....
I think I messed up my Megasquirt. All of a sudden I have no Temperature Readings, A FULL Air:Fuel Ratio Reading, a FULL 100 kpa Map Reading, and No Pulse Width Reading... without this stuff I will never get it running... Maybe its just time to say F*@k this...
I have mounted and messed with 2 different sensors, trigger wheels, lower pulleys, coil packs, coil igniters and even an EDIS4 module, and now the computer is messed up...
I guess its time to either get a MS2 pcb 3.0 ($250.00) which has a higher versatility than the ms1 pcb 2.2, reads VR sensors directly and controls coils directly right out of the box....
OR
Attempt to Fix this P.O.S. MS1 pcb 2.2 and update to a MS2 ($90.00) or just get the Zeal Engineering Daughter Card ($35.00) to read the VR sensor directly....
OR
Go outside the MS realm for something more so "plug and play" and spend more money.....
I hope Matt Cramer gets back to me before I go totally ballistic on this MS unit, all I have had is problem after problem after problem, and I keep throwing money at "this" piece and "that" piece and still none of the S#*t works
ECMLink V3Lite (supports Speed Density) was just released and is "cheaper" than full V3 at $345. You'll just need a 1g or 2g EPROM ECU depending on which harness you used.
Justin G.
90 Mighty Max
91 Talon (10.4@142 on 93oct.)
So what your saying is I would need to spend MORE money on the Mtsubishi ECU, and Harness... and another ECU to program said ECU... and on top of it all I would still have to make a big f@#*ing dent in my firewall to accomodate the CAS.
How is $345+250+harness and sensor costs cheaper than a MS2 @ 250 that I am already wired for?
Not gonna happen...
I am about half ready to just rip the Turbo and head off and go get the OLD 8v head re-done and just slap it on so my old ECU can control it... then I would have just VERY EXPENSIVELY overhauled the trucks cheap engine... this is BS
I know you are irritated with the whole thing... I got that way too and that's why it took me almost 2 years to the day to finish mine to a running state.
There is nothing wrong with taking a break from a project before you really get pissed. ... even a few days can help doing something else.
Another option is to do what Jeremy @ hotrodcoffeeshop did on his.
You can modify the engine mounts and move the motor forward 3 inches. You'd h ave to mod the trans mount and get the driveshaft extended, but it all fits great and no denting the firewall.
"ECMLink V3Lite (supports Speed Density) was just released and is "cheaper" than full V3 at $345. You'll just need a 1g or 2g EPROM ECU depending on which harness you used."
You did sorta mention that it was cheaper... but sorry anyway, having a bad bad bad week with this... I only wanted the truck to be down for 2-3 days at most and its been 11 now and next week I will be finding my way to work via Lamborfeeties, Shoebarus and a BMW (Basic Method of Walking) unless I get this thing running SOMEHOW... and it doesnt help that its snowing right now and is supposed to keep snowing all week.
Ego says take a few days off and do something else... I have nothing else to do, no "friends" to ask help of, and I only get tech support on all of the days that I dont get to work on anything, and no tech support on days I do get to work on it...
2 ideas come to mind...
1. relocate the G#$*@%n CAS to the FRONT of the cam and wire in the OLD Original ECU for fuel control and retro fit the ford EDIS4 setup that is already installed to the ECU and hope it controls the spark, if so... done deal, wrong tune, no way to change it.
2. Spend about $50.00 more dollars on a whole new Materials set and just rebuild the MS, and add VR conditioners so I can use the pulley and sensor I already spent a day Getting/Modifying/Installing on my engine.
Eww... I did not realize it was your only vehicle at the time being.
A swap like this would be a Miracle to get done in 2-3 days. I'm 37 and never seen it done without a lot of help and all the parts and fabrication rigs on hand.
Mine was 2 years in the making because I didn't know what I had gotten into and started it based on a wild hair. I know I have learned a whole lot thanks to all the others before me.
Wish I could be there to help man... It will be worth it in the end.
Egoinstigator wrote:Eww... I did not realize it was your only vehicle at the time being.
A swap like this would be a Miracle to get done in 2-3 days. I'm 37 and never seen it done without a lot of help and all the parts and fabrication rigs on hand.
Mine was 2 years in the making because I didn't know what I had gotten into and started it based on a wild hair. I know I have learned a whole lot thanks to all the others before me.
Wish I could be there to help man... It will be worth it in the end.
At the time being or EVER... Lol, I got this truck as my Second Vehicle EVER when I was 17 years old and I'm 28 now, and I have only Owned 4 cars total ever in my life and this truck thru them all... A 88 Dodge Aries K car station wagon (Dad made me build it when i was 15) This Mitsubishi Truck that I have wanted since I could remember, An automatic POS 91 Ford Tempo and a broke down POS 91 Toyota Celica... the other 3 were sold in better condition than they were when I got them... the Aries was purposly stripped clean when it was given to me, sold for a few hundo to my car wrecking sister after i got the truck, the tempo was a rolling disaster when I got it, needed a transmission, cv axles, spindle supports, brakes, starter ect... and the Celica was a project car that I fell out of love with quickly and sold before I finished it but ran once I sold it.
I started building this engine for my truck back in September last year, and the Megasquirt actually worked on the bench while turning the engine over by hand... this all became a fiasco when the sensor floated at cranking speeds, and the problems and project have only ran down hill since...
Matt Cramer is after helping me again... I must be a P.I.T.A to this guy... every day its something "new" I screwed up....
Megasquirt's processor is a little bit f@#$ed... good thing a new one is only 18 dollars plus shipping
Matt at DIY is just way too cool sometimes, I can't believe how much this guy is willing to help someone get their MS up and running correctly, he has single handedly helped me diagnose my problems on several occasions on a 1 on 1 basis, and with such maticulous explanations.
For another $40 bucks I will have a new processor since somehow I fried mine, as well as a VR conditioner for the already installed/working VR sensor and 36-1 trigger wheel. (the part I was actually avoiding buying up until now when I had to place an order anyway)
2.3strokdtalon wrote:ECMLink V3Lite (supports Speed Density) was just released and is "cheaper" than full V3 at $345. You'll just need a 1g or 2g EPROM ECU depending on which harness you used.
Hey bud sorry about the other day, I wasn't thinking or absorbing things clearly at the time... I looked into what you had said more today, and I now realize how stupid I was at the time... I thought you were speaking in terms of the Megasquirts when you mentioned full V3, and I was wrong.
I am pretty sure that the truck has whats basically the 1g ECU, not sure about the harness, I made my own from scratch, and I am also not sure of the EPROM, but the biggest concern like I had said before was the fact that I dont have provisions for a distributor or CAS to trigger the original ECU, unless it was specifically for a 94 Galant GS since thats where the motor the stock sensors came from, unless they were also used elsewhere on the newer 2.4's as well.
So Yesterday I got my Zeal Engineering Daughter board, and new MS-I CPU....
I spent ALL week trouble shooting the board to make certain that I would not fry the new processor right away and found several problems that were easily solved...
I spent about an hour and a half assembling and installing the daughter board, about 2 seconds installing the new processor and another while making sure that the card fit properly into the MS case....
This morning I went out and plugged the MS up to the truck, turned the key and got nothing as far a running, so I went to the basics of automotive care, Compression, Fuel, Air, Spark....
Compression can be heard clearly in all cylinders... cant be that
Fuel is settling in all cylinders due to no fire condition... so the injectors are firing... cant be that.
Air, easy enough... its getting it guaranteed.
Spark is not present at this time.... Hmm ok no spark, lets see why... About 2 and a half hours of BS testing I discovered the problem to be a bad ground to the Coil Igniter (transistor pack).... this has probably been my problem with getting it running this WHOLE TIME!!! ok take a break. Get a Coffee, smoke a cigarette... prepare
After the break, I went back out, reconnected all of my wiring to the Relay Board, turned the key and BAM!!!
It ran roughly for about 5 seconds then died out, WHY? no fuel pressure... cycle key and pressure is there again... ok the old ECU is ONLY priming the system, but not supplying continual current.... ok rewire it to the MS instead... My FP relay is not turning on..... Damnit another problem inside the MS, I guess I need to replace the Q3 transistor... good thing I have plenty of these transistors on hand...
So anyway, needless to say, Its Running... Finally!!
Just gotta finish tuning it all up after I replace this transistor.
Thanks Everyone for all of the Input and help so far.
1. The ground wire for the ignitor.... had to redo mine too
2. I knew the fuel pump would need the MS to run it since the stock ecu would only prime it thanks to reading some other build threads.
LOL!!! I just got sent inside for the night by the local PD, apparently a few of my neighbors complained about the 14" Exhaust pipe with no muffler... I will be up and out there at like 7am just to spite them.
Yeah Rob, it seems as tho the Igniter will not work correctly without a direct 12v source and a direct ground source from the battery itself... the other 2 inputs can be as low as a few hundred millivolts and still trigger the coil... we live and we learn, I found it all by simple diagnosis procedure.
I fried my Q3 transistor, and subsequently the replacement one as well, dont know why, so I wired the fuel pump to a switched 12v source with an inline connector for my use later... I know its not technically right or what I really want, but for the moment it works, and it looks like I am gonna have to run the fan on the same circuit since I have yet to see it turn on once.
I got the neighbors irritated at me when I was working on the idle and had just a downpipe on it too.
I ended up with an exhaust I really like too. I ran 2.5 inch with a Flowmaster 40 and dumped it just before the axle. No fart can sound with a nice rumble and purr. As close to a muscle car sound as you can get with a 2 liter Turbo 4 cylinder.
Mine is down till I get the crapy hose block off I put on on of the ports near the firewall swapped for a temp sensor.
I am anxious to see one of your logs when you start doing some tuning.
I think that the spark map needs re mapping on my end... I have spent a good while tuning this thing and still have a very rough idle/accel and a lot of back firing going on as well as gassing myself with exhaust fumes...
Isnt there a way to "auto tune" some of this stuff? I guess I could use a little help here as this is my first time messing with settings like these.... But its running, so I have impressed myself at the very least.
Do you want to see what the stock timing/fuel maps for a 1g are? Actually, what is the compression of your motor? I ask this because I have a few maps, although used in Link, they are just Load v. RPM based. I have them for a 1g, 2g and Evo. With the 1g map being most aggressive, then 2g and EVO.
Justin G.
90 Mighty Max
91 Talon (10.4@142 on 93oct.)
The Load column is close to bar units (1bar=14.7psia=0psi) so that will get you close enough.
1g timing map.
1g stock compression is 7.8:1 so this map is fairly aggressive in some spots.
So to answer your question at idle the advance will depending on the amount of vacuum your pulling, but for the most part it's 8deg@750rpm and 13-14deg@1000rpm.
This whole map assumes that the motor is at 5deg BTDC.
Let me know if this helps and if you need to see any other tables.
Justin G.
90 Mighty Max
91 Talon (10.4@142 on 93oct.)
Thats just awesome man, I wish MS-I had a table that large... we are stuck with 12x12 tables... but I guess it gets the job done.
Anyway that really helped me out in getting my timing lined up, I need a new timing light.
With your map I was able to get the "kickback" out of the cranking cycles, But I am almost positive that at this minute the truck is only running on 1 or 2 cylinders, It will start sluggishly, and run even more so sluggish... I haven't gotten to drive it yet or get any data logs because I need to find some time where I can look into it better, I had to work last night and I have to work tonight (hopefully for the last time) and there's like 4-5 inches of snow on the ground outside right now, I don't feel like doing anything out there even tho I really wanna get the truck running.
I guess tomorrow I will pull the plugs, and see if I got spark to all cylinders, and probe the Injector harness to see if I am getting Fuel, and check the compression in all cylinders.
well, its not just wired directly to the battery, it's fused to the ECU switched power and it is always on if the ECU is powered up... dont know if that helps at all
FWIW, I used the old fuelpump out of my 05 GTO and just wapped it over to the Mighty Max. I know it supported 450+ hp so it will do just fine for what I am making in the Max.
I hooked my fuel pump up just like Menace and it works great. I did put big wires on it to be sure there was no voltage loss.
I agree that we need some videos, but i gotta get it running under a load now. It idles and sounds ok, but under a load it has no power.
I am just learning how to tune for the first time here... if it was carbureted it would already be a champ...lol
Mad Menace wrote:I agree that we need some videos, but i gotta get it running under a load now. It idles and sounds ok, but under a load it has no power.
I am just learning how to tune for the first time here... if it was carbureted it would already be a champ...lol
Agreed. We should set up a video section. There really isn't much for videos out there. I've watched ligo's videos more times than I can count. Keeps me motivated to get mine done.
Where are you guys getting your relays for the fuel pump rewire? I think I might do the rewire mod while I still have the bed off. Should make a big difference since the battery is now only 3' away from the fuel pump.
I just get my relays and such out of parts bins I have had for years from other electronics projects... but you can get the stuff at Radioshak. SPST DPDT and everything in between.
Just make sure you get one that will handle the current draw. I overkilled mine with a spare 60 amp relay, but a 15 or so will be more than enough.
I am compiling a few videos of mine that I would post up if we can get a MEDIA section on here.
I got my Exhaust all figured out and installed... I ran with a 2.5" Cat-less exhaust (with flanged test pipe and properly flanged new cat of course) with an Aero Turbine AT2525.
I wish I could know what it sounds like, but I have no fuel pump and a bad fuel leak at the injector o-rings... but anyway this outta get the neighbors and local PD off my case... for now anyway.
I'm about to chuck this P.O.S. Megasquirt out in the Go% $@#n street
I have had it running, got 1 pitiful BALLS-less mile on the new engine and had another problem with the megasquirt the other night... see, apparently it was cold enough to make the megasquirt decide to hold the bank 1 injectors open on saturday night... it held them open until the intake manifold was full of gasoline, as well as the 2 open cylinders, the intercooler, the piping and even the fucking turbo was full of gas... and the tank, well the tank was plumb f*%king empty by then, when it did originally have about 6 gallons of Premium Unleaded in it...
But now, now I have spent Saturday, Sunday AND yesterday afternoon/evening and today cranking this POS and nothing coming of it... I get either just nothing as far as life goes or I get some seriously loud back fires thru the exhaust... In all this time spent on this thing, I think it actually made me think it was going to perhaps start or that I was perhaps close setting wise only like 2 or 3 times.... I just cant get this F*(KING thing to work, and I dont know 1 single person that can help, wait let me re-phrase that, I dont know 1 single person period, let alone one with automotive knowledge or tuning knowledge.... So now what? beat my f*$king fire wall in and use a "Known Working" method? or waste my Tax return that I am supposed to spend on something else on some "known working" standalone ECU that I'd have to beat my firewall in for anyway?
What stand alone ECU works with the 95-99 Separate Crank angle sensor and Cam Angle sensor that are mounted on the front of the engine? DSMLink and the stock ECU?
Are the 93 Mighty Max ECU's the PROM type or not?[/u][/i]
Shit man that sucks, but again thats why im running a chipped 91 ECU with just a stock DSM harness Jeremy hacked up. Projects like this, I try to do one major swap piece at a time, less variables. I like alot of the functionality of Megasquirt, I'd assume get it started and running on OEM-ish fuel/timing.
That being said otherguys have had more luck with squirt than you (obviously)
And I get not having the dough to redo the whole wiring.
The '93 ECU isn't eprom. There are several list on this site and another with pics to show you how to ID an EPROM board.
