S13 Front Suspension Swap?

ConquestDriftR · Post by **ConquestDriftR** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:15 am

I read about the 240SX front suspension swap on the drift car. Any info anyone could swing my way would be great. What all do you have to do to swap over to the rack and pinion and struts?

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:10 pm

Coilovers... because the stock springs were too big to turn in the towers. Adapter camber plates to bolt the struts on. S14 hubs because I needed 5 lug hubs. S14 lower ball joints for the hubs. S13 lower control arms and crossmember because they were free. cut and welded adapter plates to the S13 crossmember so it would bolt onto the frame rails. S13 HICAS rack because its a faster rack. AN adapters on the pumps and custom lines. I used a relocated S13 pump (KA) which seems fine, Starion/DSM pump might work too.

Here is where you need to come up with a better solution.. the column. I used the 240SX column.. it hit the brake pedal.. got floor mount pedals... had to move driver seat back 12" and add a 12" steering spacer. Might want to try to cut and weld on a u-joint to the stock column instead of all this B.S.

Additionally, because of the 300ZX brakes I needed longer studs because of I needed a 1/4" spacer so the Mesh wheels would clear the caliper. Even with the spacer, I can't run stock wheels because they'll hit the brakes. If I space them out to clear the brakes the car would need a substantial flare on the fender flare. Might not be a problem with S chassis brakes.

ConquestDriftR · Post by **ConquestDriftR** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:46 pm

Thanks. What kind of plate am I going to have to get fabricated?

I've got a S14, and the brakes are fine for day to day driving, but if you start to hammer on them they start to show fatigue quickly. I'm stuffing a Nissan engine (Infinity Q45 VH45DE) into my 86 'Quest. This car is going to see a fair bit of street use as well as being a drift car. I'm going to keep the factory interior and was wanting to appear as benign as possible. I just have a lot of spare Nissan parts lying around, and was wondering about the front suspension swap I saw on your page. I kind of wanted the 4 piston Z32 calipers up front, but I never thought about the wheels being too small for the brakes... This is going to take a considerable amount of thought before I go and rip my car any further apart.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:43 pm

If you used wheels other than stock Starion wheels, you should be fine. Most aftermarket wheels will clear without any issues.

silo · Post by **silo** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:39 pm

I am using a combination of starion and Galant vr4 steering columns on my car with fairly good results! i have also gone a slightly different way with the cross member, combining the lower part of the 240sx x-member with the two upper parts from the starion x-member! this removes any issues re engine mounts and mounting to chassis rails!

Silas

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:22 pm

We're going to need to see pictures.

silo · Post by **silo** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:47 pm

First remove the spot welds from the starion X-member....
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21 ... member.jpg
Drill spot welds all the way through as you will use these holes later!

Ditto for the 240sx X-member....
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21 ... member.jpg

A little cut and they should sit together snugly....
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21 ... /Both2.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21 ... n/Both.jpg

The best idea before welding anything is to put bolts back through the starion X-member and then bolt it to the body of the car! you can then remove the bolts and separate the lower part of the X-member. then simply put the 240sx X-member up to the starion one and weld it into position. this method will ensure that the holes for the chassis rail and engine mounts will line up 100%.

And this is the modified Steering column... enjoy!
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21 ... Column.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc21 ... olumn2.jpg

Thanks,

Silas

silo · Post by **silo** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:43 am

More pics here if anyone is interested!

http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=9942

Silas

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:48 am

OUTSTANDING, Silas!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:16 pm

Awesome Silo! I take it you've used RX7 uprights? How are you doing the steering column?

silo · Post by **silo** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:40 am

DJpowerHaus wrote:Awesome Silo! I take it you've used RX7 uprights? How are you doing the steering column?

Thanks guys! The struts are fc3s rx7 Dj, the column is as above using starion and vr4 galant parts with a few mods!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:08 pm

haha. Sorry. I totally didnt see it last time I looked at this thread.

silo · Post by **silo** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:35 pm

smog wrote:Been a while since I looked at a starion colum. Which parts are starion and which are galant?

Any idea of regular 4g63 powered galant parts will work? I'd think so?

From memory that was all i had to do

turbosigma · Post by **turbosigma** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:08 am

silo - you redirected me here form austarion

The reason I ask about the cross member / s13 rack is that I'm using s13 setup myself - but am stuck with the sigma power steering box.

I guess this would work on a starion to - as us sigma people have used a starion brake / strut combo for a cheep upgrade for years.

I'm using s13 struts / arms.
Skyline GTST calipers and disks ( disks redrilled to 4 stud )

I would like to use your rack idea, but because its a road car - where not allowed to weld anything up like that.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:09 am

turbosigma wrote:I would like to use your rack idea, but because its a road car - where not allowed to weld anything up like that.

Who's going to catch you?

silo · Post by **silo** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:39 pm

DJpowerHaus wrote:
turbosigma wrote:I would like to use your rack idea, but because its a road car - where not allowed to weld anything up like that.
Who's going to catch you?

Exactly! the great thing about modifying the rack the way i have is you can barely notice the changes at all!

Also if you are worried you can get the welds X-rayed and then get a engineer to certify the modification.

Silas

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:56 am

Silas

trust yourself >;o) your work is excellent, weld the damn thing and drive it!

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:32 am

I've got an eclipse column and 2 Starion columns here and I'm going to try this over the winter. Trying to make a less basket case steering setup for Craig and eventually my racecar.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:22 pm

Interesting. But why would I use a CIRCULAR R& P mount...that obviously requires a shit-load of x-member mods, when a FLAT MOUNT R & P is found on most VWs?

Just seems to *ME* that would be the direction I would venture into....cause I also remove P/S from the Euro cars too.

Yep....I buy a handful of R & Ps to experiment with before I land on a happy and EASIER conversion.

And...do not forget that there are OTHER Mitsu/Chrysler cars that had R & P from the factory. I am still investigating those notions too. The Colt comes to mind....

because I have the Haynes manuals and a Colt before me now.

Maybe...flipping the Colt's R & P firewall mount to the X-member might be easier than using 240 stuff?

"You can't see the forest.....for the trees"

But before I LEEP.....

I would check-out www.flamingriver.com
cause I buy plenty of their products too.

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:28 pm

The reason I went with the S13 stuff was because of their availabilty and after market support. Colt steering racks are much harder to find.

NightlifeD50 · Post by **NightlifeD50** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:26 pm

Seems to *ME* that the professor knows more than any of us mere mortals.

Some people always have to find something in someone elses plan to rip apart and tell them they're doing it wrong

Still would like to see if the professor is done his swap yet, the way he talks it seems like he would have had his up and running months ago.......

and its spelled "leap"

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:26 am

DJpowerHaus wrote:The reason I went with the S13 stuff was because of their availabilty and after market support. Colt steering racks are much harder to find.

I don't think you would have a tuff time finding Passats, Jettas, Gtis, Golfs.
(and probably more)
All flat-mounted with dual mini u-joints, some are lenght adjustable....M/S & P/S and I bought a few of them for $20 each. Different ratios, different tie-rod ends, two different manufactors (TRW & ZF), but for the most part...they are interchangable because ALL the HOUSINGS are the same bolt patterens.

And I write for several different cars.

When I find the time...I'll PM you a few pics.

And I don't see many 240s out there anyway.

Btw...that was just other ideas to explore. 240s would be at the bottom of *MY* list. Sorry if I hurt some tender feelings.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:53 am

Professor Quest wrote:
DJpowerHaus wrote:The reason I went with the S13 stuff was because of their availabilty and after market support. Colt steering racks are much harder to find.
I don't think you would have a tuff time finding Passats, Jettas, Gtis, Golfs.
(and probably more)
All flat-mounted with dual mini u-joints, some are lenght adjustable....M/S & P/S and I bought a few of them for $20 each. Different ratios, different tie-rod ends, two different manufactors (TRW & ZF), but for the most part...they are interchangable because ALL the HOUSINGS are the same bolt patterens.

And I write for several different cars. When I find the time...I'll PM you a few pics.

And I don't see many 240s out there anyway.

Btw...that was just other ideas to explore. 240s would be at the bottom of *MY* list. Sorry if I hurt some tender feelings.

And this pic is right outta PQ's catalog. Extended....both. No welding required.

Bill Hincher · Post by **Bill Hincher** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:44 am

Daviticus wrote:
Professor Quest wrote:Interesting. But why would I use a CIRCULAR R& P mount...that obviously requires a shit-load of x-member mods, when a FLAT MOUNT R & P is found on most VWs?

Just seems to *ME* that would be the direction I would venture into....cause I also remove P/S from the Euro cars too.

Yep....I buy a handful of R & Ps to experiment with before I land on a happy and EASIER conversion.

And...do not forget that there are OTHER Mitsu/Chrysler cars that had R & P from the factory. I am still investigating those notions too. The Colt comes to mind.... because I have the Haynes manuals and a Colt before me now.

Maybe...flipping the Colt's R & P firewall mount to the X-member might be easier than using 240 stuff?

"You can't see the forest.....for the trees"

But before I LEEP..... I would check-out www.flamingriver.com
cause I buy plenty of their products too.
What was the point of this post? You want to use a VW rack instead of a Nissan ... Congratulations, do it, and show us. I don't see a single word of constructive criticism in your post, in fact, it more sounds demeaning than informative.

I agree

NightlifeD50 · Post by **NightlifeD50** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:44 pm

Prof you have too much money to play with

And you obviously think you know it all, maybe you should change your name to Mr. KIA

flaming river, more like flaming queers with over-priced crap

VW crap is over-priced too even used parts, old s-chassis nissans are plentiful and cheap

so quit bashing everyones ideas, you haven't contributed any good info, you sound like you think you're better than the rest of us

sorry if i hurt your feelings prof, but you're a douchebag

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Fri May 01, 2009 7:53 pm

NightlifeD50 wrote:Prof you have too much money to play with

And you obviously think you know it all, maybe you should change your name to Mr. KIA

flaming river, more like flaming queers with over-priced crap

VW crap is over-priced too even used parts, old s-chassis nissans are plentiful and cheap

so quit bashing everyones ideas, you haven't contributed any good info, you sound like you think you're better than the rest of us

sorry if i hurt your feelings prof, but you're a douchebag

We do know what we are talking about. And I only suggested www.flamingriver.com to gather some ideas for you guys....to build your own.

And we buy the R& Ps for $200 by the pickup truck load.

I sell my manual recirculating ball steering for $400 + S & H including the steering column.

Do you think that is too much?

NightlifeD50 · Post by **NightlifeD50** » Mon May 04, 2009 12:15 pm

I like the glove thrown in there as a big F U to everyone on the board

NightlifeD50 · Post by **NightlifeD50** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:15 pm

oldcolt75 wrote:what car does this rack come out of .. it would be perfect for me

He'll sell ya one for 400 + s & h including the steering column

Post by **DJpowerHaus** » Thu May 14, 2009 3:23 pm

My car has always been a chain reaction of modification leading to other modifications. Most of the car being quite a pain in the ass.

This past weekend, I was upgrading the exhaust manifold which led to redoing oil drain hose (top mount turbo -> bottom mount turbo) which led to replacing the oil pan (was custom massaged to clear 240SX rack and crossmember) which led to replacing the crossmember (240SX -> Starion modified for R&P).

Its a lot of work right before the season, but I'm going for it. The end result is going to be a 240SX rack mounted to a StarQuest crossmember. I'll have it on track in June and I'll report back. From the looks of things, the brackets are going to be easy and cheap to make. We'll see how everything else comes together from there.

I don't need to figure out tie rod ends on my car as I am using 240SX front uprights, but one day I'm going to come up with a tie rod end kit for StarQuests with stock front uprights. Also a steering column much like Silas showed pictures of. (More likely than a kit is me balling this call up into a wall and moving these parts over to a relatively tame street car.)

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:01 pm

DJpowerHaus wrote:My car has always been a chain reaction of modification leading to other modifications. Most of the car being quite a pain in the ass.

This past weekend, I was upgrading the exhaust manifold which led to redoing oil drain hose (top mount turbo -> bottom mount turbo) which led to replacing the oil pan (was custom massaged to clear 240SX rack and crossmember) which led to replacing the crossmember (240SX -> Starion modified for R&P).

Its a lot of work right before the season, but I'm going for it. The end result is going to be a 240SX rack mounted to a StarQuest crossmember. I'll have it on track in June and I'll report back. From the looks of things, the brackets are going to be easy and cheap to make. We'll see how everything else comes together from there.

I don't need to figure out tie rod ends on my car as I am using 240SX front uprights, but one day I'm going to come up with a tie rod end kit for StarQuests with stock front uprights. Also a steering column much like Silas showed pictures of. (More likely than a kit is me balling this call up into a wall and moving these parts over to a relatively tame street car.)

You're exactly right, it is alot of effort...and some of what you have seen here is unnecessary.

Example: welding on a bracket to bolt the steering column to the firewall would only be necessary if the 4 BOLT DASH SUPPORT was found to be too weak.

If one of my conversions go into a 2 BOLT DASH SUPPORT...then yes, we build a SANDWHICH SUPPORT to re-inforce where it's attached to the firewall. Kinda like Silas's did.

We are not happy with ALL that flamingriver sells.

We RE-ENGINEER their silly-assed mistakes all the time.

If you were to remove the steering column from a Crown Vic, you would note that there is ZERO support to the firewall. That would be because the 4 BOLT DASH SUPPORT is spread-over a much larger area. Obviously a Crown Vic is a PIG of car, so the lateral forces on the column are much greater.
Cadillac, and many other applications, same deal.

Sooner or latter we'll get around to a R&P conversion kit for USA Starquest models only, cause things are bit different on the R.H. drive models...like there steering boxes are mounted on the OUTSIDE of the frame rail, instead of the INSIDE of the frame rail.
Btw, No, not Honda. That's a Saginaw power R&P and I THINK it came from a GM application. Don't matter...I've already removed it cause I'm not happy with it. It takes-up too much room for the header primary piping so I'm re-vamping it with a different power R&P assembly...so, yeahhh, that entire system, heim joints, u-joints & shaft will be sold dirt cheap. What I just built will use the OEM tie-rod ends and the DOUBLE-Ds u-joints so no need to find the correct spline count to match-up these parts.

My Photobucket account is down right now but pics will be available in the future.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:39 pm

NightlifeD50 wrote:I like the glove thrown in there as a big F U to everyone on the board

That's not what that meant at all, genius.

There's FUCKING thousands of ideas to convert to R&P steering.

The gloves were just a lil' humor.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:50 pm

NightlifeD50 wrote:
oldcolt75 wrote:what car does this rack come out of .. it would be perfect for me

He'll sell ya one for 400 + s & h including the steering column

....and I never said that either.

However, I would sell that R&P complete system w/input shaft & u-joints & mounting brackets & heim-joint tie rod ends too for $400 + shipping.

Use your OEM column.

I also think that mounting a R&P is a lil' more simple than doing it THIS way.

A PILLAR mount Saginaw:

Btw....

I build brakes, too!

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:15 pm

oops.

Professor Quest · Post by **Professor Quest** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:21 pm

DJpowerHaus wrote:My car has always been a chain reaction of modification leading to other modifications. Most of the car being quite a pain in the ass.

This past weekend, I was upgrading the exhaust manifold which led to redoing oil drain hose (top mount turbo -> bottom mount turbo) which led to replacing the oil pan (was custom massaged to clear 240SX rack and crossmember) which led to replacing the crossmember (240SX -> Starion modified for R&P).

Its a lot of work right before the season, but I'm going for it. The end result is going to be a 240SX rack mounted to a StarQuest crossmember. I'll have it on track in June and I'll report back. From the looks of things, the brackets are going to be easy and cheap to make. We'll see how everything else comes together from there.

I don't need to figure out tie rod ends on my car as I am using 240SX front uprights, but one day I'm going to come up with a tie rod end kit for StarQuests with stock front uprights. Also a steering column much like Silas showed pictures of. (More likely than a kit is me balling this call up into a wall and moving these parts over to a relatively tame street car.)

I know little about Galants. But you would only need a FIREWALL bracket *IF* it only had TWO, upper retention bolts. A Starquest has FOUR, so it is WELL SECURED. so a firewall bracket would be unnecessary & excessive....but certainly wouldn't hurt it.

However, if there is NOT a u-joint on the end of that WELDED END STUB, then tilting the column would STRESS the WELD!

The COUPLER is also a u-joint, hence, you don't need a hinge plate.

And....Starquest & Galant parts seem to be TRANSFERABLE, so why WELD it?

The CLAMP for the tilt-wheel is also modified so it GRIPS MUCH TIGHTER. I also build the steering shafts to custom lenghts.